YTSEJAM Digest 5324
Today's Topics:
1) Railing against "pop" culture in general is pointless (NDTC)
by MusicSnob@aol.com
2) JLB and more SFaM bitching, some queries, all DTC
by "Awake ." <awake@buffymail.com>
3) YTSEJAM digest 5323
by ytsejam-manager
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323
by DWADESTER@aol.com
5) There's more.
by "Awake ." <awake@buffymail.com>
6) Re: DT sold out and went totally commercial!!!
by WarrenDW@aol.com
7) RE: Dave mustaine on vh1
by "Tim Detman" <td4235@ship.edu>
8) re: Pop DMB
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
9) Re: SFaM stuff
by Linus Akesson <lairfight@softhome.net>
10) RE: Pop DMB
by "Tim Detman" <td4235@ship.edu>
11) RE: Dave mustaine on vh1
by David Dixon <David@iisweb.com>
12) question
by Mark Moore <rushzil2112@yahoo.com>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323
by "Greg Jones" <gregrjones@mindspring.com>
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323
by "Greg Jones" <gregrjones@mindspring.com>
15) Un-subscribe me.
by car97fan@webtv.net (marcus pedersen)
16) Re: vocals
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
17) 2/6 at the Roseland
by "Neil Evans" <progmtl@mindspring.com>
18) Re: JLB and more SFaM bitching, some queries, all DTC
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
19) Re: Un-subscribe me.
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
20) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:17:20 EST
From: MusicSnob@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Railing against "pop" culture in general is pointless (NDTC)
Message-ID: <84.1b26802.25e16d90@aol.com>
somebody vented his spleen with the following:
>What I hate is how the majority of people in general will listen to whatever
>top 40 radio shoves down their throats. No matter what song is played, as
>long as is played pretty constantly blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Your problem is that you are expecting other people to assign the
same importance to music as you do. This is such a common thing to do,
but if Jesus Q. Pubic doesn't really care about music anyway, and is just
looking
for something to listen to as background for his life's activities, of course
he's
going to accept whatever Top 40 throws at him. That's not even taking into
account the whole peer pressure aspect. Substitute "read" for "listen",
"book" for
"song", and "hyped" for "played" in the above quote, and we can explain the
popularity of crap pop fiction like Grisham, Clancy and the like, too. No
intelligent person should be surprised when mass-marketed dreck rises to the
top of sales and popularity charts. You know you are "right" -- be satisfied.
NP: Souls at Zero (or is that "Sales at Zero"?) - Self-titled
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: 20 Feb 2000 16:16:29 -0000
From: "Awake ." <awake@buffymail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: JLB and more SFaM bitching, some queries, all DTC
Message-ID: <20000220161629.14706.qmail@whitfield.chek.com>
>> And the way James sings on this album [SFaM] is his >>best (ACOS too
>
>I would put ACoS over SFaM any day of the week
>and twice on Sunday. He is certainly at his
>most emotive on this album, but his technique is
>just not there.
Not really, the most emotive vocal he ever did was in Another World, LITS, and arguably TKH from L@TM. On SFaM - and in places on Mullmuzler - he just sounds so WHINEY!
>I don't mind that he sings in a lower register more
>on SFaM. What I do mind is how he is supressing his >vibrato. Even when he does use vibrato it is forced
>and held, much unlike the free and easy vibrato he
>had on Awake and ACoS.
I love it when he goes up high, like the sections on Innocence Fadeded, TTT, TOT etc., he sounds fantastic. Can't do it live, of course, but I'll live with that. But with ref to the above and also this:
>FII it was getting worse and SFaM sounds like
>either an aging James, or a truly talented singer
>trying to supress his natural and learned technique
>in order to sound more commercial.
No question, it's the latter. Listen to Mullmuzler and some of the backing vocals on SFaM (Strange Deja Vu, the bit that goes "There's a light at the top of the stair..."), he can still do it. I think JP and MP didn't want him doingb the high stuff, frankly. On any other album, the afore-mentioned backing vocal on that section of Deja Vu would have been the
>range. Maybe less. Mariah Carey was forced to stop >showcasing her talents in order to sell more
>records. That sucks! Here's this girl with these
Actually, I think she stopped using it because the silly cow refused to allow a voice coach to warn her about the dangers of misusing it, and ended up tearing out her throat on tour. When was the last time you heard her hitting any of those high notes (or indeed, *any* one single strong target note) live?
>fan of Mariah Carey's chosen style of music
>(the soul stuff. I like the poppy stuff), but
It's ALL pop stuff. Mariah Carey - in keeping with most people who make what these days passes as "soul" music, doesn't know the meaning of the world. It's glossy sub-hip hop-styled trash with cheesy melodies.
>them (someone already mentioned the Peruvian
>Skies-Have a Cigar similarity) then I think
They don't sound at all similar; it's just that the riff fits in very nicely into the context. Same with the Sandman riff into the bottom half. Completely different, but bunch nicely together.
>Also - someone had a sig with a quote from John P >regarding John M - where did that come from?
I noticed that too, about "working with JM is like breathing - you just do it"? Was that an insult or a compliment, because it's a weird way of doing either.
>As a project for my hard disk multitrack
>recording class, I'm recording Hollow Years as
>kind of a tribute (when I'm finished with it,
>I'll post it so all you guys can hear it and
>tell me what an awful voice I have and how
<wince> Yeah, I recorded a version of Hollow Years last year on a little closed-circulation tape, and got suckered into doing the vocals too. Listening to it now is one of the most painfull experiences of my adult life.
>I've noticed how hard it is to keep my vibrato
>out of my voice and yet still sing with any
Really? How do you get it INTO your voice, I can't do it at all?
>From: "Paul Evans" <evansp3@corp.earthlink.net>
>Subject: JP's live sound
>Yup, I agree whole heartedly that JP's live sound
>this tour is phenominal. Has anybody figured out
>what he uses to get the acoustic sound?
Probably a piezo system in the bridge...Ernie Ball likes those things. If JP's sound is phenomonal on this tour, it'd be a first. I've always hated his live rhythm guitar tone...It was too weedy on L@TM, just plain horrible (albeit much chunkier) on OIaL. Lead tones, he does alright, but not clean and rhythm. And when I listen to Awake now, a lot of those tones suck a little as well. That said, his tone on SFaM is great...Sounds like he's Finaly Found what he's been looking for...
>You are aware that every 7 string band, including
>a great deal of death metal, was up until recently >pickguard guitar, right? Probably about half
You are aware that virtually every 7 string band has mind-bogglingly horrible tone, and - barring Fear Factory - rubbish composition, right?
..Even Limp Bizkit, and he doesn't even use a low B!
~Simon
Sign-up for free Buffy the Vampire Slayer e-mail at
http://www.buffymail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:29 +0100
From: ytsejam-manager
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: YTSEJAM digest 5323
Message-ID: <iN4K0rwkSv@sts.sigma.it>
SUBJECT: YTSEJAM digest 5323
ERROR: An attached file is too large
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:40:32 EST
From: DWADESTER@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323
Message-ID: <d8.186af14.25e17300@aol.com>
TAKE ME OFF THIS STUPID LIST! 90% OF WHAt is posted on this mb is total
crap that has nothing to do w/ music at all you people ruined something that
had some possibilities. but then again you all may only be 12 years old
..then i would understand!!
------------------------------
Date: 20 Feb 2000 16:41:54 -0000
From: "Awake ." <awake@buffymail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: There's more.
Message-ID: <20000220164154.17127.qmail@whitfield.chek.com>
>From: "Just Bart" <bchilders@kc.rr.com>
>Subject: RE: some thoughts (too many actually...)
>absolutely *love* SFAM because the entire band
>is working to make the entire concept work.
Oh, so THAT'S what they're doing? Well, they're not doing a very good job of it then.
>Subject: RE: : JP's live sound
>
>> Has anyone else who has seen the Metropolis
>>2K tour wondered why JP needs *6* 4x12 cabinets?
>
>Well, he uses a stereo image (for stereo effects
>like delay, chorus, etc.). Think of the 6 speaker
>cabs as 3 full-stacks and it all makes sense.
Yeah, but he achieved that last time out with *3* 4x12s. I suspect that the basci reason is the same as it was for the I&W/Awake tours, as someone correctly pointed out:
It makes one feel mighty impressive.
But.
Much like having a $3000 7-string and a rack the size of a Winnebago instead of a $600 RG and a SansAmp:
Your penis remains exactly the same size.
;)
>From: Amy Marie Van Wynsberghe
>Subject: Marillion
>Does anybody know where I can get a taste of both
>"eras" of Marillion's music?
Easy. Go to the kitchen. The Fish era is like butterscotch tart: if you don't like it, there's something reall wrong. The fake (Hogarth) era is like Marmite: some people like it, but they're weird.
>Besides, at least Howe's more exciting than Billy >"Sherwood be nice to play more than just boring
>rhythm parts". :)
Be fair, that's what he's there for. It's like saying "Why don't Guy Pratt and Jon Carin play solos with Floyd" - well, because they're just musicians hired in to backup the remains of Floyd!
>From: Trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: POP Culture/Beyond this Life Vocal FX
>No offense to any women on this list, or women in
>general, but that sounds like something an *ignorant*
>woman might say. I've noticed that women seem to be
>more prone to listening to shitty pop music to the
>exclusion of everything else moreso than a guy.
Yes, but guys are more inclined to listen to shitty rubbish like Korn and Marilyn Manson, or all that crappy "hardcore dance" (y'know, the stuff that -whaever e;se they claim - sounds exactly like any other dance music). It balances out about evens.
>'Course there's an exception for every rule (although
>I've yet to find one for this one). Like I said, I'm
Well, there's a large minority of women on this list straining at the leash to bust your arse over that post for a start.
>(The dirtly little secret is James is a baritone,
>too. Shhhh.)
You're kidding? No way! This can't be true, right?
~Simon
Sign-up for free Buffy the Vampire Slayer e-mail at
http://www.buffymail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:53:03 EST
From: WarrenDW@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: DT sold out and went totally commercial!!!
Message-ID: <7d.16202b9.25e175ef@aol.com>
<< Jim Brown
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2000 9:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: If that ain't a kick in the ...
Long time reader, first time poster - but I just felt the need
to vent on this one. So I'm all psyched up for the Dream
Theater show coming to Pittsburgh tonight. So myself and
a friend get tickets, go down to the place (Metropol), head
for the door, and WHAT!! You have to be 21 to get in, which
of course does not bode well for myself being 20.8. I tired
ineffectively arguing with the guy but no luck! Not only am
I out 23 bucks, but I missed the show. Now I have to wait
another 2 years for the next tour, aaack! Is it just me or is
this ridiculous. Smells like commercialism to me, our once
pure band now only plays venues that can shell out enough
money stolen by selling $5 drinks?? For the record - that
just pisses me off.
JB
------------------------------------
Jim you should be pissed off. DT is not even touring in the NorthWest this
time. They have been here in Portland each tour since I & W. When they were
here last time it was a 21 and over show. Not a problem for me but many who
wanted to go and had the cash could not get in.
But DON'T be pissed off at the BAND!!!!!
Fact like when they tour, where they tour, 21 and over, which clubs they play
at, etc. ALL these decisions are made by their Management. This is a business
decision based on many variables. The Band has to trust the business
decisions made by the people they hired to do just that.
Portland SUCKS when it comes to music. This is a blues and jazz town. You
will almost NEVER hear a DT song on the radio here. In fact one DJ here
named...you'll like this.."Craig the Dog Faced Boy" commented on SFAM when it
was released saying something like..."their music is too complicated to
listen to" This MORON typifies the mindset here. I don't blame the management
for skipping Portland. Seattle is probably similar although I don't know
firsthand.
So be pissed off just don't blame OFB. There is a lot more to it.
Warren in Porland
P.S. to M.M. Bite Me! :>)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:54:46 -0500
From: "Tim Detman" <td4235@ship.edu>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: Dave mustaine on vh1
Message-ID: <NDBBJOAJEBLELDIGIBGMIEJNEEAA.td4235@ship.edu>
> Did anyone catch Mustaine in Rock n roll jeopardy on vh1? he kicked
> George Clinton and Moon Zappa's ass!!
> Its cool to see actual good musicians there instead of top40 pretty
> faces..
its really hard for me to consider dave mustaine to be a good musician.
yeah, he's got some skills. but i can't believe how shitty his music is
getting. that new album sucks. and the thing is he doesn't care as long as
it makes money. he even said that he wishes he could change the name of the
band because "megadeth" doesn't represent the band. listen to any song on
rust in peace, then listen to the new one.
that shit pisses me off. a few years ago metallica pissed me off when they
turned into a group of commecialized pussies, now megadeth has done the
same. i hope dave and his megastreet boys are happy with their crap.
-tim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:46:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: re: Pop DMB
Message-ID: <20000220174633.16140.qmail@web120.yahoomail.com>
"Tim Detman" <td4235@ship.edu> wrote:
> I even went to a DMB concert a few years
ago.
> And it was terrible, it was me and 30,000 drunk 15
year old girls...
Lol! Now that really strikes me as funny.
The usual complaint is being caught in a mosh with
30,000 drunk, screaming, sweating guys...
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:51:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: Linus Akesson <lairfight@softhome.net>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: SFaM stuff
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0002201838310.507-100000@localhost>
In accordance with the prophecy, Awake . uttered:
> and chop the extraenious shit like the last five minutes of BTL, the first
> minute and a half of THE, and the whole of TDOE, some of those excruciating
> samples in FF that make me have to turn the volume down halfway through) was
> flawed.
Say what?? The whole instrumental part of BTL is swell, and TDOE plays a big
role in the album and in linking it to Met. part 1. (In my oh so humble opinion
of course.) I'm not trying to defend DT (like that would be necessary on this
list), I just couldn't sit back and let you call those passages "extraenious
shit" (sic) without any kind of motivation. What would you like SFAM to be? A
Hollywood movie? Why do you want to remove all the passages that are slightly
difficult to listen to?
> The reviewer in my University's magazine said that he'd "rather have boiling
> rats piss poured in [his] ears than ever have to listen to this again"
Uh huh. How polemic.
Linus
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deliver a pizza? Whoever heard of a liver pizza?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
lairfight@softhome.net, visit http://linusworld.cjb.net (PGP key available).
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:09:53 -0500
From: "Tim Detman" <td4235@ship.edu>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: Pop DMB
Message-ID: <NDBBJOAJEBLELDIGIBGMKEJOEEAA.td4235@ship.edu>
> Lol! Now that really strikes me as funny.
>
> The usual complaint is being caught in a mosh with
> 30,000 drunk, screaming, sweating guys...
i knew as soon as i typed that somebody would make that comment.
it is kind of funny.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:13:24 -0700
From: David Dixon <David@iisweb.com>
To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: Dave mustaine on vh1
Message-ID: <A65ADB6BE999D3118F650008C7E61752117B80@MESSAGING>
>a few years ago metallica pissed me off when they
>turned into a group of commecialized pussies
Oh, Good Lord - don't open that can o' worms... :)
>, now megadeth has done the
>same. i hope dave and his megastreet boys are happy with their crap.
>-tim
Well, just because it's not metal doesn't mean it sucks. I rather like the
new album, though admittedly you do have to analyze it outside the context
of Megadeth as they were prior to the last couple albums. Yes, I like the
old stuff better (I'm quite partial to SFSGSW...), but I definitely dig
"Cryptic Writings" and "Risk". You just have to look at it through
different eyes...
David
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:44:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Moore <rushzil2112@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: question
Message-ID: <20000220204437.6252.qmail@web1104.mail.yahoo.com>
I am wondering if anybody can help me out. My friend
and I are both dying to see Dream Theater here in the
Dallas show in March. But there is one problem. My
friend and I are both 15, the place they are playing
at is for people 18 and older, no exceptions. I was
wondering if anybody knows Mik Portnoys, or anybody
from DT e-mail address or any way of contactin them.
I would really like to see them, but because of the
circumstances I can't. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks before hand.
=====
Mark Moore-drumming is life
"HOLD YOUR FIRE-
KEEP IT BURNING BRIGHT
HOLD THE FLAME
'TIL THE DREAM IGNITES-
A SPIRIT WITH A VISION
IS A DREAM WITH A MISSION
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:49:44 -0500
From: "Greg Jones" <gregrjones@mindspring.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323
Message-ID: <002101bf7be4$060c69e0$78e58ad1@gregjones>
>
> I cringe at the lyrics on SFaM. I think the concept sounds like >something
Neil Peart rejected as being "too hammy" (which for >Rush is damned scary),
and the lyrics don't even make the bet >of a bad job.
I couldn't disagree more. The reason some people don't like the lyrics on
SFAM is because they aren't ambiguous enough. Remember......ambiguity breeds
depth. But the lyrics on SFAM are intentionally clear so as to tell the
story. This is just what you'd expect from a concept album. It's also a
limitation for a concept album. It's a trade off but not necessarily a
deficit. Which do you want? A concept album or ambiguous (read deep) lyrics?
You can't have both.
>
>
>James sounds good, but not his best as everyone seems to be >implying
(which I think is amazing on this list: one of DT makes >the least use of
his technique on any album thusfar, and >Jammers don't bitch?
I like James' sound on the new album because he doesn't overdue the high
notes and the vibrato. Someone else on this list complained because he's
suppressing his vibrato but to me, the vibrato vocals of prog sound so
cliched.
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:53:59 -0500
From: "Greg Jones" <gregrjones@mindspring.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323
Message-ID: <002a01bf7be4$9d7f7880$78e58ad1@gregjones>
>
> >Petruccius says, "It's all in the fingers."
>
> Bollocks. Obviously the amp is the absolute decider, but at the business
end of the cable, I'd say: it's about 50% in the fingers, 40% in the
pickups, 5% in the strings and 5% in the construction of the guitar (wood,
hardtail or whammy etc).
In my opinion, most players confuse tone with playing and therefore
incorrectly conclude think that tone is primarily in the fingers. While it
is true that the fingers play a role in tone, I believe the major
contribution to tone is in gear. Yes, it's true that Eddie Van Halen would
still sound like himself even through a cheap solid-state amp lined direct
to a junk PA but his tone would sound different. He would sound like himself
because of his *playing*. If Eddie played an open D chord through his gear,
and then I played an open D chord through the same gear no one could tell a
difference in a blind fold test. VH's tone changed from the Roth era to the
Post-Roth era because he changed amps and started using Chorus, not because
his fingers changed. His playing still sounds the same, for the most part.
Eddie Van Halen is just one example that proves my point. There is a
difference between tone and playing. Tone is primarily in the gear, fingers
play a smaller role. Playing is primarily in the fingers, gear plays a
smaller role.
>
>
> >At LAST, I can one-up Ron Thal and construct that 21 >string triple neck
Bleu Cheese guitar I've been
> >designing for months now! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
>
> I'd love a twin-neck with a 7-string and a 12-string. Drool...
>
>
> >ReSent-From: Graham Borland <graham@picsel.com>
> >I went to see Yes last night in Glasgow. I didn't
> >know any of the songs, but I quite enjoyed it. The >Russian keyboard
player was very cool; Steve
> >Howe's guitar playing was extremely sloppy.
>
> I really like Igor, I think he's a really cool player...Now if only Bill
Bruford would sign up again! As for Howe being sloppy...So what else is new.
I never understood all the fuss about him. Interesting ideas as a pomposer,
but his playing sucked on "The Yes Album", it sucked on "The Ladder", and it
blew hard on everything in-between.
>
>
> >From: "M P" <mremann6@hotmail.com>
> >Subject: PF and DT
> >Actually, I keep expecting them to break into
> >the end part of "Eclipse" sometime during that
> >tune... sortof like you could expect "Have a Cigar" >during Peruvian
Skies...it just fits.
>
> I said it before, but I'll say it again: the end of Stange Deja Vu.
Starship Trooper III:Wurm (by Yes). A match made in heaven, I assure you.
Actually, damnit, where's my copy of pro-tools? I can take the Uncovered
version of that tune and link the two togeather! Now there's a plan!
>
>
> >From: CoolCris26@aol.com
> >Subject: Scenes (My Decision) and Pink Floyd
> >produced album, and I have finally come to the
> >opinion that it IS a lyrically strong album.
>
> I cringe at the lyrics on SFaM. I think the concept sounds like something
Neil Peart rejected as being "too hammy" (which for Rush is damned scary),
and the lyrics don't even make the bet of a bad job. James sounds good, but
not his best as everyone seems to be implying (which I think is amazing on
this list: one of DT makes the least use of his technique on any album
thusfar, and Jammers don't bitch? There's a first!); and the solos are often
a little throwaway. It seems to me that the decision not to demo it first
(which would have allowed time to reflect on it a little; and chop the
extraenious shit like the last five minutes of BTL, the first minute and a
half of THE, and the whole of TDOE, some of those excruciating samples in FF
that make me have to turn the volume down halfway through) was flawed.
>
> >It took a while for me to get used to that
> >"trumpet part," but now I even like that. I
> >actually see how it's like metal jazz fusion
> >and it does fit.
>
> No it doesn't; and that's nothing at all to do with the choice of patch,
it's the scale JR's using. It sits uneasily at best into the song. The best
possible conclusion for BTL is to fade it when that tremoloed guitar comes
in before the instrumental package.
>
> >If someone asked me what album to buy first for
> >DT to get a taste of them i would tell them SFAM.
>
> And they'd never listen to DT again. The reviewer in my University's
magazine said that he'd "rather have boiling rats piss poured in [his] ears
than ever have to listen to this again", that it was "sub-Pink Floyd", "full
of stadium synths and guitars that are simultaeniously crunchy and widdly".
I know the guy who wrote the review, and he's not a closed-mind prog-hater,
he's got the widest musical tastes of anyone I've ever met, and a CD
collection that takes up an entire room. He knows his shit, and to him - and
anyone who isn't a DT fan and will thus give SFaM the required time to grow
on them - it's terrible. Even I thought so when I first heard it, and I love
DT. Some people suggestd that this'll be the breakthrough album - to them, I
say: you're deluding yourselves.
>
>
> >phenomenal. And by the way 94 PF Division Bell
> >was by far the best concert I've ever seen and
> >that includes seeing DT 5 great times and Liquid
> >Tension once.
>
> Absolutely agreed. That's probably why Floyd's hiding at the moment: how
the hell would they EVER top that? How can ANYONE top that? This was six
years ago, and no-one's even come close to even matching it yet.
>
> ~Simon
>
>
> Sign-up for free Buffy the Vampire Slayer e-mail at
> http://www.buffymail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of YTSEJAM Digest 5323
> **************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:54:33 -0500 (EST)
From: car97fan@webtv.net (marcus pedersen)
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Un-subscribe me.
Message-ID: <915-38B05489-17856@storefull-131.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
This is my third and my last request to unsubscribe me from this
crapletter. The next request will be from my lawyer. All three
requests are recorded and notarized. Don't push me.
Thank you for including me, but no thanks.
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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:08:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: vocals
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10002201555580.20014-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, M P wrote:
> > I don't know ANY tenors who can sing a low A healthily, yet
> >that is EXACTLY what James does in Voices (The BG vox on "Is there fantasy
> >in refuge, God in politicians,"
>
> I don't believe the backing vox were supplied by James for
> this song. My liner notes for Awake are lost (and my signed
> Japanese liner notes for Awake are stolen ;( thanks
> Misfit), but I believe it's one of the producers.
I was under the impression that the only song in which James didn't supply
the background vocals was The Silent Man. And that was the producer.
But I thought that James did ALL the other BG vox. And still, it doesn't
matter much because he DID sing low A's on the following parts:
(These are all in "Voices")
"He used to say to >me<" - 1:21
">Now< the widow makes the rules" - 1:35
">I'm< kneeling on the floor" - 5:15
"Like the spider in the >window<" - BG Vox - 5:25
"God in >politicians<" - BG Vox - 5:38
"turn on my >religion<" - BG Vox - 5:41
Now, granted, the BG Vox parts are negotiable, since you claim that he may
not have sung them. But I'm pretty sure he did. Tell you what: If nobody
gets a chance to do it, I'll ask him when I see him in Boston next week. :)
1 week from today! You have NO idea how psyched I am to be seeing DT for
the first time in seven (count 'em - SEVEN) days. I did see Mike and John
at the clinic last May in Manchester, NH, but that doesn't really count,
does it? It's not the WHOLE band.
-------------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu
http://cout.dhs.org/
Cloak on IRC
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------------
"Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving
kids all over the world, I can't help but cry. I
mean I'd love to be skinny like that but not with
all those flies and death and stuff."
- Mariah Carey
-------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:13:20 -0800
From: "Neil Evans" <progmtl@mindspring.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: 2/6 at the Roseland
Message-ID: <002801bf7be7$519d7a40$056479a5@default>
I'll be flying from CA to NY for the 2/26 show at the Roseland (and also to
visit my g/f Nicole). We were thinking of having dinner before the show at
a restaurant/bar near the venue called "Pig n' Whistle". It is on 47th
street just east of 7th Ave, and supposedly has great food and a large menu.
I think entrees run about $10-$15.
Anyone interested in having a jammer get-together there? We could get there
early, say 4ish, have a bite to eat and a few drinks, then head over to the
Roseland en masse and raise hell.
Reply to my private email (not the jam) if interested.
cheers,
-Neil.
progmtl@mindspring.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:24:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: JLB and more SFaM bitching, some queries, all DTC
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10002201614170.20014-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, Awake . wrote:
> >As a project for my hard disk multitrack
> >recording class, I'm recording Hollow Years as
> >kind of a tribute (when I'm finished with it,
> >I'll post it so all you guys can hear it and
> >tell me what an awful voice I have and how
>
> <wince> Yeah, I recorded a version of Hollow Years last year on a
> little closed-circulation tape, and got suckered into doing the vocals
> too. Listening to it now is one of the most painfull experiences of my
> adult life.
>
> >I've noticed how hard it is to keep my vibrato
> >out of my voice and yet still sing with any
>
> Really? How do you get it INTO your voice, I can't do it at all?
I don't know how serious you are about singing, and how long you've really
been trying to do it, but if you are at all serious, I can't stress enough
the importance of a voice teacher. I started studying with mine in my
freshman year of college (that's three falls ago), and I tell you, if I
could go back and tell myself in high school to do even *10%* of the stuff
that I do now with my voice, I'd have been the best baritone in Vermont
(in my age group).
As for putting vibrato in your voice... It's not so much a thing you PUT
into your voice as it is a side-effect of having your tone completely
free. Sure, pop singers and musical theatre people will ADD it to make
certain effects, but in reality the true singers (that's right, opera
people) show you how it's really done, because they sing completely
freely. As for how to GET your voice free... There are several tips, but
the only true way is to train yourself not to take control of your voice,
but rather to LET it do what it wants. This also means that you have to
accept the fact that as you try new things your voice is going to make
mistakes (cracks, breaks, weird sounds). It's OKAY.
Some tips you can use to *help* get your voice freer:
Keep your mouth open at the normal amount, and make as large a space as
you can in the back of your throat, kind of like a reverse megaphone.
Don't overforce it, though; get it to be easily done.
Do a lot of lip-trills and "R"-trills with your lips and tongue. Make
sure that there's NO tension in your tongue afterward.
I know it sounds odd, but: Do exactly what James does in-concert - Sing
with your tongue sticking further out than you'd think it should be. In
perfect terms, you should be able to sing your best when your tongue is at
"Home" position, which is just behind your bottom teeth, but not pressing
against them. It WILL help you, however, to create a free tone by
sticking your tongue out and keeping it low (it opens up the back throat a
little more).
Sing as if you're yawning. That means that your nasal cavities are not
opened (if you plug your nose you can't feel vocal vibrations) and your
soft palette is WAY up there. Another good way to feel the tone you
should have when singing is to (at least for guys) talk like a real macho
man with a really deep tone or like you were bellowing out some phrase.
These are just a few things that may help you to get a freer tone, but the
only true way to do it is to get somebody professional to help you out
with it, and believe me, after almost three full years of training, I'm
STILL trying to get it just right. Only now am I starting to do things
correctly, and it's really tough to do it 100% of the time.
-------------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu
http://cout.dhs.org/
Cloak on IRC
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------------
Sometimes, when I would read a very good book,
I would stop and thank my teacher. At least, I
used to, until she got an unlisted number.
-------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:32:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: marcus pedersen <car97fan@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Un-subscribe me.
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10002201629400.20014-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, marcus pedersen wrote:
> This is my third and my last request to unsubscribe me from this
> crapletter. The next request will be from my lawyer. All three
> requests are recorded and notarized. Don't push me.
> Thank you for including me, but no thanks.
This strikes me as hilariously funny. Look, man, you joined this mailing
list voluntarily, and as such, it is YOUR responsibility to know how to
unsubscribe. You cannot possibly think that a lawyer is going to make a
difference in that - in other words, you cannot sue somebody because of
YOUR stupidity.
To further prove my point, I'm going to MAKE it your responsibility to
know how to unsubscribe. As such, I'm not going to tell you how. But
it's NOT by threatening the list to do it for you; as a matter of fact,
it's not by sending mail to the list at ALL. So, to make you actually
WORK to find out the instructions, I'll tell you how to do it in a
roundabout way for annoying us all with your petty requests.
Go to www.dreamtheater.net and look for the instructions on how to
unsubscribe. That's all I'm going to tell you.
-------------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu
http://cout.dhs.org/
Cloak on IRC
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------------
If you try and don't succeed, cheat. Repeat
until caught. Then lie.
-------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:39:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5323
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10002201633430.23230-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, Greg Jones wrote:
> I like James' sound on the new album because he doesn't overdue the
> high notes and the vibrato. Someone else on this list complained
> because he's suppressing his vibrato but to me, the vibrato vocals of
> prog sound so cliched.
Personally, I think this sounds like somebody who has been exposed to too
much rock music and not enough of everything else. Just as an FYI:
Vibrato is a result of singing CORRECTLY. The reason that James sang with
vibrato in the other albums is because he was doing something that
required a completely healthy voice (singing that high stuff is really
hard to do). It's not cliched to sing properly, nor is it wrong to want
to do so. The reason James sings without vibrato in these last two albums
is probably because there was force coming from up above telling him not
to do so. Too many pop and rock artists don't sing with vibrato because
they don't have the skills necessary to do it properly, and that makes the
people that DO use it seem out of the ordinary.
Personally, when I really analyzed the vocals on FII, I was surpised at
how little James actually did use vibrato. THAT was the reason he was
hurting so much during Touring Into Infinity: Listen to OiaLT. Listen to
how much his voice hurts from doing all that stuff straight-toned. He has
to HOLD his voice, put PRESSURE on his vocal chords, in order to create
that sound. And notice how much strain it put on him. Do you really want
that to happen to him every time he does a tour? It will eventually make
him no longer able to sing - and THAT would be the true crime here.
-------------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu
http://cout.dhs.org/
Cloak on IRC
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------------
I like to go down to the dog pound and pretend
that I've found my dog. Then I tell them to kill
it anyway because I already gave away all of his
stuff. Dog people sure don't have a sense of
humor.
-------------------------------------------------
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5324
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