YTSEJAM Digest 5539
Today's Topics:
1) DT/Metallica/Sell-out
by IAmClay777@aol.com
2) Re: DT Selling Out?
by "Nicole R. Stachowicz" <ytsekirby@yahoo.com>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
by Fett2002@aol.com
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
by Fett2002@aol.com
5) Sell-out
by Pam Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
6) newsted didn't fit it? ignorance of metal history, people
by MusicSnob@aol.com
7) Fwd: Total Request Pantera
by "A_Change of_Seasons" <appoggiatura@hotmail.com>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5537
by CeaSerin@aol.com
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
by CeaSerin@aol.com
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
by CeaSerin@aol.com
11) variant
by "Kris Norris" <variant@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
12) RE: YTSEJAM digest 5538
by "Greg Stafford" <thwizard@bellsouth.net>
13) Hollow years
by Pam Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
14) Concerto Suite in Eb for Electric Gutiar and Orchestra
by Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
15) dt in philly
by Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
16) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
by EvoReaper@aol.com
17) metallica, baseball -- you know, NDTC
by Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com>
18) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
by "Catherine Foll" <cathafoll@hotmail.com>
19) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
by "Catherine Foll" <cathafoll@hotmail.com>
20) Re:
by "Wes Foll" <wesfoll@hotmail.com>
21) Re: fake Yankees & Lakers fans
by "Wes Foll" <wesfoll@hotmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 16:57:28 EDT
From: IAmClay777@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: DT/Metallica/Sell-out
Message-ID: <e6.7d5c566.269a4138@aol.com>
Lots of stuff to bitch about.
>Umm...sure...except...well, no. You see, if it were up to Jason, they'd be
playing >balls-to-the-walls speed metal 99% of the time. He is probably the
biggest head->banger in Metallica - he was raised on their old stuff and
WORSHIPPED Cliff >Burton. Jason comes into recording sessions with dozens of
song ideas, and >Hetfield and co. throw 99% of them out because he's "too
progressive" or "too fast." >Jason has ONLY ever contributed on THREE songs
in Metallica's history (48 during >his tenure, not counting "I Disappear"
because I don't know about that one). How >can you say that a guy who's
input is so supressed can influence the band's >direction so strongly?
This is definitely true, especially if you consider that Jason has formed two
or three side bands with Andreas Kisser of Sepultura, a band which, although
not so much right now, used to be the absolute kings of speedmetal. I'm
actually looking forward to Jason's side-project (Echo Brain) more than the
new Metallica album. Plus, he seems like the nicest guy out of all of them,
so that gets him more points.
>Also, you may want to remember that Cliff's biggest contributions were the
slower, >melodic harmony parts, like in the early instrumentals or the slow
part of "Master of >Puppets," etc. Yeah, he was a wild, creative force with
Metallica, but it was also >Cliff who taught Hetfield to grow musically,
explore harmonies, etc., as a result of >him being the only one schooled in
music theory. So if you want to blame >someone for their "demise," you're
pointing the finger at the wrong bass player. >You can speculate that they
wouldn't sound like they do today if Cliff was still alive, >but it's a FACT
that Hetfield would never have branched out as much as he has >without
Cliff's influence, which is what eventually led Metallica to the style they
play >today
This is also true, but keep in mind that Cliff, especially with his crazy
live playing, was a major force in giving the band creative and playing
energy, which leads to the huge release on Master of Puppets. AJFA sounds
wayyy flatter, not just because of the mix, but also because the songs are
played with less than a quarter of the energy as heard on Master. And of
course, the bass is inaudible. Lastly, if Cliff would have survived,
Metallica would have become more and more melodic, but they still would've
retained the energy and 'progressive' songwriting style that they had in the
80s.
> Magnus12551 wrote:
> << However, DT did not CHOOSE to sell out. They were under mondo label
> pressure... and glad things worked out the way they did :)
> >>
>
> There's ALWAYS a choice. And for the record, I enjoy FII but love SFAM
> sooooo
> much.
Dumb comments; read the 20 Questions with Mike Portnoy on Metal-Sludge.com.
As Mike states, Elektra was forcing them to make a commercial record by not
dropping them when they tried to resist and giving them a whole new
production team, etc. The funnier part about this was that (As I recall) the
DT fans were signing an internet petition at this time to get DT back into
the studio (Since they did not know about most of this and just saw that DT
wasn't recording) which added even more to the pressure... In any case, they
did NOT have a choice.
As for the setlist, I was under the impression that on this leg of the tour
they'd just be playing normal shows, not Met 2 followed by medleys.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 17:46:59 -0500
From: "Nicole R. Stachowicz" <ytsekirby@yahoo.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: DT Selling Out?
Message-ID: <002401bfe9f7$98001780$0101a8c0@pavilion>
Magus12551@aol.com wrote:
> However, DT did not CHOOSE to sell out. They were under mondo
> label pressure... and glad things worked out the way they did :)
Damn, I hate it when DT sells out, especially at Best Buy or Circuit City.
I like to see a nice, healthy stock of CDs when I go in there. 'Course that
means ppl are buying them, so I shouldn't complain. :D
-Kirby's still alive and reading one jam per 2 weeks...
Nicole Stachowicz
US Coordinator for the Dream Theater International Fan Club
http://www.mikeportnoy.com/usdtifc.html
Kirby on irc.dreamt.org:2112 #ytsejam and #ytseradio
Kirby on http://www.mikeportnoy.com/chat.html
dtifc@yahoo.com -=- http://www.christopherlloyd.net
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 19:02:18 EDT
From: Fett2002@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
Message-ID: <e6.7d9daca.269a5e7a@aol.com>
In a message dated 7/9/00 4:29:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ytsejam@torchsong.com writes:
<< Thank god someone hit it dead on about Kirk Hammett. I used to think his
playing was alright, but the more I listen, the more it blows. He attempts
to orchestrate his solos like Satriani, but fails miserably. >>
Um, ever listen to his guitar work on the song "One"? I mean, c'mon. Try and
tell me that his guitar work isn't great in that song.
-mike C.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 19:11:33 EDT
From: Fett2002@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
Message-ID: <9e.6ef0c56.269a60a5@aol.com>
In a message dated 7/9/00 4:29:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
ytsejam@torchsong.com writes:
<< >16 July Rome, Italy
>Dream Theater headlining shows
>Opening Act: Quango (Carl Palmer & John Wetton
=20
Is anyone on this list going to this show? If so, maybe we can meet and=20
"hang out". I'm going to be there with my wife. Anyone?
>>
Will your wife be playing the skin flute at this concert? :=DE
-mike C.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:18:35 -0500
From: Pam Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Sell-out
Message-ID: <l03020900b58eb7ae4218@[209.224.35.236]>
I came across this quote and had to share.
"If you're going to sell yourself out to a movie, then sell yourself out to
the biggest movie possible. Go for it all the way"
Lars Ulrich
____
Pam
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 19:56:57 EDT
From: MusicSnob@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: newsted didn't fit it? ignorance of metal history, people
Message-ID: <3f.73f274c.269a6b49@aol.com>
Obviously when the Skadz is away the Metallica topics will play... anyway,
whoever said Jason Newsted didn't fit into Metallica and influenced their
decision to sell out is on crack, and probably believes that Peter Criss
calls the shots in Kiss. Newsted came from a band (Flotsam and Jetsam) that
was probably even heavier than Metallica in its prime, not to mention,
Newsted wrote a significant portion of the F&J material (check the liner
notes to "Doomsday for the Deceiver" and for "No Place for Disgrace"). Not
only that, but he played fills and runs! So don't blame Newsted...
NP: Ark
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:22:41 GMT
From: "A_Change of_Seasons" <appoggiatura@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Fwd: Total Request Pantera
Message-ID: <20000710002241.41977.qmail@hotmail.com>
Hey Jammers...
I thought this might interest a few of you.
Delete if you must, read if you can.
later,
poj
Tired of seeing MTV News stories about the latest facial hair creations the
Backstreet Boys have come up with?
Here's your chance to do something about it. MTV wants to know what bands
you would most like to see in their MTV News Ozzfest Special (which airs
Tuesday, July 18 at 4:30 p.m.) and Pantera is one of their choices.
We need your support in making Pantera one of their news' segments. Just
follow these 3 quick & easy steps:
1. Click on http://www.mtv.com/news/polls/poll_oz/
2. Scroll down to the bottom of article and click on "Total Request
Ozzfest".
3. Select The Pantera Challenge and scroll down to the bottom to submit
your vote.
Please vote as often as possible and make sure to send this email to
anyone you know who has ever complained about MTV programming (ie.
everybody).
Of course, be sure to get up-to-the-minute news and information at:
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Thanks for subscribing. If you wish to stop receiving mailings from us in
the future, please send an email to listmail@silverm.wmg.com with the word
"UNSUBSCRIBE pantera1129" in the subject line.
________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:45:34 EDT
From: CeaSerin@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5537
Message-ID: <36.861d284.269a76ae@aol.com>
In a message dated 7/8/00 3:58:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
ytsejam@torchsong.com writes:
<< > Another point about selling out. Dream Theater admits that they tried to
> write radio songs on FII. Has anyone thought about what would have
happened
> is that album sold 2 millions copies or so? I seriously doubt that SFAM
> would
> have ever been made and I'll bet that a vast majority of this list would
now
>
> be calling ST a bunch of "sell outs"and saying they suck and stuff like
that.
>
> Just a thought.
However, DT did not CHOOSE to sell out. They were under mondo label
pressure... and glad things worked out the way they did :) >>
What some people fail to realize is that when you are under contract with a
major label it's exactly what it says..."you're under contract with a MAJOR
label."
The label must sell X amount of CDs to make themselves financially happy, ya
see.
Personally I wish everyone would just shut up about the whole DT sell out.
Cause if you would just go back and listen to FII you will hear that the
band is still very technical, very "progressive" sounding, and very
intelligent.
One aspect about FII that I must commend is the status of Dream Theater at
the time. When DT released "images and words" every band and their grand
mother became progressive suddenly. Thousands of copy cat bands were popping
up all over the place. It started getting really big around the time "Awake"
came out. And by the time that the new studio album was going to come out
they were faced with a conundrum. 1) release another "images and words" and
compete with all the new prog bands, or 2) go in a different direction and
exemplify what "progressive" is supposed to mean.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:48:09 EDT
From: CeaSerin@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
Message-ID: <e3.6de110b.269a7749@aol.com>
In a message dated 7/9/00 6:30:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
ytsejam@torchsong.com writes:
<< agnus12551 wrote:
<< However, DT did not CHOOSE to sell out. They were under mondo label
pressure... and glad things worked out the way they did :)
>>
There's ALWAYS a choice. And for the record, I enjoy FII but love SFAM
sooooo
much.
-mike C. >>
Yeah, write your own material the way you want it and have the record label
slap you with a law suit and not release your disc, or compromise. I think
DT did a very nice compromise. FII was still progressive, intelligent, and
meaningful.
J. Lamm
www.mp3.com/CeaSerin
(mercurial metal band with many styles)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:49:57 EDT
From: CeaSerin@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
Message-ID: <22.8367a9d.269a77b5@aol.com>
In a message dated 7/9/00 6:30:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
ytsejam@torchsong.com writes:
<< Brian Hayden:
>Well, right here you completely discredit your entire post. You're going on
> what people have told you, and what people have told you is wrong. They
> actually played very little CW/Risk material on either of those tours. They
> were doing The Mechanix, Peace Sells, Wake Up Dead, Hangar 18, Holy Wars,
> etc, etc, and lots of Countdown material. >>
Well, when I saw them in November, they did 4 songs from Cryptic Writings
(Trust, Almost Honest, Use the Man, and She-Wolf), 3 songs from Risk (Crush
Em, Prince of Darkness, and Breadline), Hangar 18, Holy Wars, Peace Sells,
Anarchy in the UK, The Mechanix, Symphony of Destruction, Sweating Bullets,
and A Tout Le Monde. And maybe 1 or 2 other old ones. So it was good mix of
the newer and the older stuff.
-mike C.
>>
I heard a new version of Hanger 18. Same lyrics and but different music.
It was quite kick ass. Maybe a tell tale sign of what is to come. Here is a
question. Who can name a band that has release three horrible albums and
came back with a great one? I really can't think of any and it would be nice
of Megadeth could change that.
J. Lamm
www.mp3.com/CeaSerin
(for mercurial metal, different and provocative)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 21:39:24 -0700
From: "Kris Norris" <variant@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: variant
Message-ID: <509874F6EF554D11DAAC0005B813E913@variant.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
http://www.mp3.com/variantqualities improv prog metal
Dream Theater newsletter - http://www.dreamtheater.net/uacmmail/
____________________________________________________________
Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 21:47:50 -0400
From: "Greg Stafford" <thwizard@bellsouth.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 5538
Message-ID: <NDBBJAOKCLFDIHNFDJMHOEHFCCAA.thwizard@bellsouth.net>
Anyone from Atlanta, Ga going to the Dream Theater show in Cincinnati e-mail
me. Maybe we can get a party started. If there isn't one already.
later,
Greg
AKA The Wizard
<begin website plugin>Comedy site
Are you a Lazy American? Take the quiz and find out.
http://www.lazyamericans.com
</end website plugin>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 21:02:49 -0500
From: Pam Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Hollow years
Message-ID: <l03020900b58ed813b7da@[209.224.35.244]>
> And with this whole FII bullshit, who the hell cares?? That
>is a very solid album, with great songs, like Lines In the Sand, Just Let Me
>Breathe. The only real sellout song on that album is Hollow Years. Even
>so, would you call Through Her Eyes a sellout song?? If the music doesn't
>change, or does change for the better, it's all good.
>
>Ibanez Dan
Every once in-a-while someone cuts down Hollow Years. My opinion is
greatly different, I LOVE that song...let me explain. Just about the time
FII came out I was finishing up my "Hollow Year". I had been bed ridden
for a year due to illness, this lead to full blown depression. If was
awful, I was fired from my job, I was unable to care for my daughter who
was in kindergarten, etc. etc. I have fully recovered, but that song
reminds me how lucky I am to have that stone lifted off my shoulders and
that cloud over my head disappear. I beleive that song was written for a
reason, maybe John or someone close to him was going through a bad time,
and John wanted to give them hope.
This song continues to be very meaningful to me.
"Walk me across the water, and maybe you'll understand"...Hollow Years
Pam
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 22:45:32 -0400
From: Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Concerto Suite in Eb for Electric Gutiar and Orchestra
Message-ID: <20000709.230004.-856335.1.Axeman_dannl@juno.com>
> I would like a copy of Yngwie's Concerto Suite for electric guitar as
well as
> the Dream Theater tribute album "voices".....
I don't know about "voices", but as of a month ago, Concerto Suite was
$19 on amazon.com, not the $40 it used to be. I've got the version with
the orchestra, and I'll be damned if I'm trading it. :-)
-Dan.
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 22:59:59 -0400
From: Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: dt in philly
Message-ID: <20000709.230004.-856335.2.Axeman_dannl@juno.com>
> the thing i'm not too keen about is seeing them inside again at the
electric
> factory in philly. that place is an acoustic shithole. plus indoor
> concerts in the middle of the summer bug me. its time to take it
outside.
at least it's not blistering hot in there like the Roseland - that place
didn't even have windows.
>The other guitar stolen was Gibson's replica of the same guitar. If
you've seen any around
>your town, go to www.zakkwylde.com and look at the piece written on it,
it
>has a picture of the guitar with the seriel number. Zakk's a big guy,
and I'd
>be willing to put money on it that he'll kick the guys ass who stole em
:-)
The bassist from Cream (forget his name) had his trademark red Gibson SG
bass stolen from him, and it was actually returned to him about 15 years
later. By that time, he was playing fretless basses almost exclusively
and thought his old one felt like a toy.
-Dan.
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 23:12:14 EDT
From: EvoReaper@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538
Message-ID: <63.8158bbf.269a990e@aol.com>
<< heheh gotcha, i'm not that George guy...
but hey, Skadz's on vacation, so you guys can write about anything, 'tallica
crap, kevin VS derek VS jordan, DT sold out, james sucks, or even write in
MIME stuff... and you won't be kicked from the mighty ytsejam ;-) >>
Dude-you don't think Skadz going to review this shit when he comes back?
<<Hey, does anyone here know the reason that osme King's X shows are 18 and
over? i wanted to go the one at the House of Blues in Chicago, but i'm only
16. King's X is one of my favorite bands, and they're kinda getting older and
i don't know how i'm gonna get to see em if they keep playing 18 and over
shows.>>
It's not the band, it's the venue. I'm pissed off because I can't see Zakk
Wylde at Sharky's in Nashua NH, (ONE of my hometowns...), because it's 18 +
and I have 4 months until I turn 18.
Oh well, Zakk's the man, the ULTIMATE bad-ass guitar player. I'll catch him
sometime.
Andy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:56:46 -0400
From: Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: metallica, baseball -- you know, NDTC
Message-ID: <20000710005646.D27374@optical.mindstorm.com>
On 2000-07-09 at 13:32 -0700, ytsejam@torchsong.com
<ytsejam@torchsong.com> truly believed:
> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 17:48:59 EDT
> From: Fett2002@aol.com
> Subject: Re:selling out
>
> Digital Man wrote:
>
> >Then there's Metallica. Metal, metal, metal, metal, pop.
>
> Pop? They changed their style a lot for sure, but they certainly didn't go
> pop.
"And Justice For All" (the song). "Wherever I May Roam". You tell *me*
what happened.
---> Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 16:01:38 -0700 > From: Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com> > Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5537 > > D-Man mentioned about Rush - I too enjoy all their albums - I don't need to > hear nothing but 20 minute long epics - I'll listen to their newer stuff (in > fact, my personal 2 faves are Power Windows and Counterparts) but I like it > because they continually try to push themselves as musicians - getting > better at their craft. Metallica on the other hand, doesn't appear to do so > anymore. :(
Yeah, that's what I meant. I guess I'm pissed because Metallica were musicians' musicians, and now they're pop musicians. I'm not saying they got any less talented, and I'm not speculating as to the reasons they've done it, but it's rather apparent that it takes less work to play what they're doing now compared to what they did in the 80s.
Anyone have Apocalyptica? Without the distorted guitars, and drums, and vocals, you really get a chance to hear how they *composed* their music back then, and the difference between then and now. Their music has become simplistic. For better or worse, but it's not as challenging to listen to, and that's part of the reason that I no longer listen to it.
---
> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 20:13:01 EDT > From: MusicSnob@aol.com > Subject: D-man's sensible Metallica sell-out story (but not really) > > And Frost was a band who couldn't afford to lose the fans, because > unlike Metallica's run-for-the-money, Frost's failed miserable, and > after another studio album, they ended up breaking up.
Heh heh. Now I have to listen to SOD's second album again. :)
> This message is written.
MusicSnob is thanked by me.
---
Attention non-baseball fans: Well first of all, you're probably a Communist anyway. But most of the rest of this post deals with baseball, but there's another bit about music at the end. So, unless you're a good, red-blooded American, scroll down to the part about Porcupine Tree.
> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 14:22:14 EDT > From: MTeiper@aol.com > Subject: Re: popularity (NDTC) > > Yanks/popularity thing... BELIEVE me. That's not to say there aren't > die-hard lifer Yankee fans, but I gotta agree with you here... there do seem
One of my best friends has been a die-hard Yankee fan since they sucked in the late 70s. We have awesome conversations about baseball, because he's a real fan of his team, and I'm a real fan of my team, and we're both real fans of baseball. We had a great time together at the game Friday.
Another of my best friends claims to like both teams. I simply don't understand this at all. Then again, he eats hot dogs with ketchup. I wonder if his wife knows he's gay...
> the double header yesterday. I'm still bristling over the 2 HUGELY lame-ass > obstruction calls that both went against the Mets, and I can't believe that
First call: There are three people to blame for that one, and none of them are employed by the Mets. First of all, Lee Mazzilli. Who the fuck is Lee Mazzilli to be making calls? Second, that baby-faced umpire. Hey, dickbag, Mazzilli's a coach. You don't have to listen to him. The guy would have never made that bullshit call had Mazzilli not said anything (because there was no call to make). Thirdly, Bud Selig, for the obscene turnover rate in MLB umpires this season, and for sending a rookie crew out there for Fox's Game of the Week (not to mention the most important set of games in NY this side of October).
Second call: Agreed, bullshit again. Knoblauch had the choice to charge harder and get out of Zeile's way, and try for a play at first, or hang back, play behind the runner, and toss to second. But he chose to play in the basepath, missed the play, and didn't get out of the runner's way. Asinine. *And* that killed a rally. Grrrrr. I sincerely hope the Mets win this appeal, and not even because the Mets lost, but because the umpiring in this game needs to be addressed.
---
> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 11:58:39 -0700 (PDT) > From: Adam Perkowsky <perk1994@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Yankees-Mets (was: popularity (NDTC)) > > I am tired of hearing Mets fans bitch about Piazza > getting beaned. It is something that happens every day > in baseball. Pitchers pitch inside. Most of the time > batters get out of the way. If Piazza was able to duck > and avoid being hit, nobody would be talking about > that today. The reaction would have been "Wow, I can't > believe that ball just missed his head!" but play > would go on and that part of the game would have been > forgotten rather quickly.
OK, a couple of points here. One, the brush back is a part of the game. The pitcher needs to protect the plate. Otherwise, every muscle-headed slugger will crush every outside pitch he sees. (Incidentally, I am thoroughly disgusted by the body armor some batters are wearing. Andres Gonorhhea shows up to the plate wearing a football uniform, for chrissakes, and leans in to the inside pitches. No wonder he has so many home runs. You can't scare him off the inside.)
But when you consider that pitch... Allow me to re-quote Adam: "If Piazza was able to duck and avoid being hit, nobody would be talking about that today." That's just the thing of it. When someone throws something at your head, you flinch, or duck, or throw your hands up. Piazza didn't have time to react. That was a ruthless pitch. You want to come up and in on someone? Fine. But Clemens was looking to scare Piazza, and maybe even hit him. I don't think he was aiming for the head, but he was aiming, and to come in high and tight with the high heat is just plain cowardly. *Especially* in an AL park, where you're not going to be the one receiving the revenge pitch. Clemens is a pussy, and I've lost all respect for him. He could have ended Piazza's career with one pitch. He came damn close.
And as for Adam's reasoning that no one would have remembered that part of the game, I know two people that would have: Piazza and Clemens. Remember, Piazza *owns* him, and embarrased the shit out of him last time. Clemens wanted to make sure that he didn't get shown up by Piazza again, I'm sure. Fucking coward. I hope he gets suspended. Take that pitch in context (with the June series, and the inside pitches to Harris and Bell), and he deserves some punishment for that. (Of course that won't happen, because Clemens sells merchandise, and Selig can't stand to lose any royalties.)
You know what sucks most about this series (other than the fact that the Mets lost three games)? Both teams are in the hunt for first place, but all the attention was paid to two bad calls and a death pitch. That sucks.
I can't wait to watch this series next year. Now it's personal.
Oh, BTW, to those Yankee fans who love to berate Mets fans: Get fucking over it. Six games, and now we don't have to worry about each other until hopefully October (but maybe next June). You're fighting the wrong fight. You're not going to get me to stop loving the Mets because the Yanks won last year, and you're not more of a man because you're a Yankees fan. I'm more of a man because of my loyalty to my team. I seriously wonder how many of these Yankee "fans" could even tell you who played first before Martinez.
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> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 12:30:19 PDT > From: "Wes Foll" <wesfoll@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: fake Yankees & Lakers fans > > This sounds just like the stupid image-driven people out here in Los > Angeles. All of a sudden, everyone is a Lakers fan. But you wouldn't have
Is it true that people show up to Dodgers games late and leave early, just to be seen? That's what happens when ticket prices get too high.
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OK, so upon the recommendations of Partha and a couple others whose names escape me presently, I picked up Porcupine Tree's "Stupid Dream" yesterday. I was hesitant, because some people characterized then as "space rock". Now maybe I don't know the definition of space rock, but I didn't think I'd like it. Holy shit, this disc is phenomenal. I think of heavier Radiohead, or slightly more radio-friendly Chroma Key with a more prominent guitar. Unbelievable. Thanks, kids.
-d NP: Porcupine Tree/Stupid Dream
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough d-man@dreamt.org "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates cmerlo@mindstorm.com /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.dreamt.org/d-man \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 22:02:18 PDT From: "Catherine Foll" <cathafoll@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538 Message-ID: <20000710050218.60900.qmail@hotmail.com>
>From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
>that gives them any sort of local, national, or homospecial pride since >it >really is quite silly to support anything simply because you relate >to it. >KorgX3 notes that was sarcasm, btw.
I guess we all have a little fakeness in us eh? And your sarcasm is noted as such. heh. I think I'm a part of the 10% or so of ytsejammers who understand sarcasm without being explicitly told that it's sarcasm. 8-)
Viva la sense of humor
------------------------------------------------------ Wesley Foll, Geology B.S., Loma Linda University wesfoll@hotmail.com follwes@sc.llu.edu wfoll00g@ns.llu.edu djwes10069@mail.ytseradio.com ICQ #4550740
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Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 22:02:40 PDT From: "Catherine Foll" <cathafoll@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5538 Message-ID: <20000710050240.60956.qmail@hotmail.com>
>From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
>that gives them any sort of local, national, or homospecial pride since >it >really is quite silly to support anything simply because you relate >to it. >KorgX3 notes that was sarcasm, btw.
I guess we all have a little fakeness in us eh? And your sarcasm is noted as such. heh. I think I'm a part of the 10% or so of ytsejammers who understand sarcasm without being explicitly told that it's sarcasm. 8-)
Viva la sense of humor
------------------------------------------------------ Wesley Foll, Geology B.S., Loma Linda University wesfoll@hotmail.com follwes@sc.llu.edu wfoll00g@ns.llu.edu djwes10069@mail.ytseradio.com ICQ #4550740
________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 22:07:29 PDT From: "Wes Foll" <wesfoll@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Message-ID: <20000710050729.60627.qmail@hotmail.com>
>From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
>that gives them any sort of local, national, or homospecial pride since >it >really is quite silly to support anything simply because you relate >to it. >KorgX3 notes that was sarcasm, btw.
I guess we all have a little fakeness in us eh? And your sarcasm is noted as such. heh. I think I'm a part of the 10% or so of ytsejammers who understand sarcasm without being explicitly told that it's sarcasm. 8-)
Viva la sense of humor
------------------------------------------------------ Wesley Foll, Geology B.S., Loma Linda University wesfoll@hotmail.com follwes@sc.llu.edu wfoll00g@ns.llu.edu djwes10069@mail.ytseradio.com ICQ #4550740
________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 22:07:47 PDT From: "Wes Foll" <wesfoll@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: fake Yankees & Lakers fans Message-ID: <20000710050747.31724.qmail@hotmail.com>
>From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
>that gives them any sort of local, national, or homospecial pride since >it >really is quite silly to support anything simply because you relate >to it. >KorgX3 notes that was sarcasm, btw.
I guess we all have a little fakeness in us eh? And your sarcasm is noted as such. heh. I think I'm a part of the 10% or so of ytsejammers who understand sarcasm without being explicitly told that it's sarcasm. 8-)
Viva la sense of humor
------------------------------------------------------ Wesley Foll, Geology B.S., Loma Linda University wesfoll@hotmail.com follwes@sc.llu.edu wfoll00g@ns.llu.edu djwes10069@mail.ytseradio.com ICQ #4550740
________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5539 **************************
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