YTSEJAM Digest 5523
Today's Topics:
1) Hasselhoff
by "Tibor Varady 2.0" <lawinen@freemail.hu>
2) progressing - progressive
by "Tibor Varady 2.0" <lawinen@freemail.hu>
3) Re: We All Need Some Light?
by "Sasha C." <sasa.cabaravdic@pu.tel.hr>
4) hm...
by Zack1183@aol.com
5) Re: Smoke On the Water?
by "Sasha C." <sasa.cabaravdic@pu.tel.hr>
6) Re: hm...
by Brian Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
7) Kings's X in Ljubljana 23rd
by "Matej Grginic" <izolit@siol.net>
8) Symphony X - V
by Oddvar Lovaas <flail@online.no>
9) DT does Knight Rider theme song cover
by Joshua Rasiel <josh@on-linedesign.com>
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5522
by Fett2002@aol.com
11) RE: YTSEJAM digest 5522 Subject: Dream DVD
by "Greg Stafford" <thwizard@bellsouth.net>
12) Re: We All Need Some Light?
by Janne Jokitalo <janne_jokitalo@yahoo.com>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5522
by mikel <mikel@alphalink.com.au>
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5522
by Adam M Cook <ac003i@mail.rochester.edu>
15) RE: YTSEJAM digest 5522
by "Herbert, Jason" <jherbert@biccgeneral.com>
16) RE: Calcitrant
by "Herbert, Jason" <jherbert@biccgeneral.com>
17) disconnected/prog definitions
by "Matthew Tedesco" <Matthew.Tedesco@colorado.edu>
18) 1999 Christmas CD
by Alexandro Talamini <Alexandro@Boticario.com.br>
19) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5522
by Brian D Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
20) David H.
by Daniel Wannemacher <dany@cs.uni-sb.de>
21) Progressive Folk Music?
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
22) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5521
by "Ricardo Testa" <ricardotesta@hotmail.com>
23) Re: We All Need Some Light?
by "Carlos Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 12:58:49 +0200
From: "Tibor Varady 2.0" <lawinen@freemail.hu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Hasselhoff
Message-ID: <200006271058.MAA09531@altair.ceu.hu>
Mike C said:
>
> Does anyone have any possible kind of rational explanation why David
> Hasselhoff is popular in Europe?
Most popular stuff is pure shit - around the globe.
from the american talk shows to the south american soap
operas.... to name but a few.
Rational explanation? Maybe humanity is brainfucked - but I
don't want to go too philosophical-political.
Tibor
BTW: new Paradise Lost out in September. Although I wouldn't call
that progressive ("progressing"), as someone else did. But it's good.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 12:58:49 +0200
From: "Tibor Varady 2.0" <lawinen@freemail.hu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: progressing - progressive
Message-ID: <200006271058.MAA09521@altair.ceu.hu>
Let's call the "breaking barrier, really new inventive music"
*Progressing Music*,
and the "odd rhythm, Genesis to DT" music Progressive Music,
or prog, prog rock, prog metal.
Just a suggestion.
Tibor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:08:25 +0200
From: "Sasha C." <sasa.cabaravdic@pu.tel.hr>
To: "Ytsejam Mailing List" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: We All Need Some Light?
Message-ID: <005e01bfe028$70198ea0$23f51dc3@sasha>
"Carlos Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net wrote:
>If im not mistaken, the disc booklet has the lyrics
>?
no shit? thanx for enlightening me...
I just ordered the damn album 5 days ago, and it'll take at least 3 weeks
until I get the Transatlantic and my copy of Gordian Knot Interview Disc.
So, I asked nicely if someone could post me the lyrics to We All Need Some
Light... I downloaded an mp3 of the alternative mix (btw, there are no
limited edition copies available anymore so don't preach how I'm stealing
from the band by downloading mp3s) and I couldn't figure out what mr. Roine
was singing half the time... that's it.
And btw... I got what I wanted thanx to sacredjade@hotmail.com a.k.a. A
Change of Seasons.
>
> Lyrics... please? anyone? :-((( I'd really appreciate it...
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue Jun 27 07:44:16 2000
From: Zack1183@aol.com
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: hm...
Message-ID: <200006271148.EAA29946@fugazi.torchsong.com>
<<I know there are countless debates on this list as to what consitutes "progressive" music, and I have no delusions of being able to define it for the masses. But, this is a brief primer I wrote for another list (containing some people who are into old Alan Parsons, Yes, Gentle Giant, etc) and I thought it may be appropriate here. Take it with some salt.>>
That is not really a poor "primer" for prog. If someone new was coming into the genre from the evil realm of popular music, you don't give such an elitist view of progressive music and you don't win them over by saying "Everyone sucks but Tull, Yes, Genesis and Gentle Giant."
Simply because you don't like bands like Blind Guardian, or don't understand them, does not mean they aren't progressive. That's one of the great things about prog, everyone can pull something diffrent from it.
Even if you don't believe that, and somehow believe that the only true prog bands are the four aforementioned ones (you should join rec.music.progressive, but thats another story...), it doesn't have to be truely evil to sound like another band. Glass Hammer's new album Chronomotree sounds a lot like Emerson Lake and Palmer, but I still love it to bits.I guess Dream Theater isn't prog either. They should change their name to Jethro Tull.
I really bet if Jethro Tull changed their name to release their next album, very few people that say "Tull is God" would like it. Kind of the Pepsi Challenge for old prog. :-) Of course, the same holds true for Rush. I like both bands, but their die-hard fans are too closed-minded.
Zack
Long live Prog-metal... and prog-rock, prog-pop, prog-electronic (whatever you call Chroma Key) and whatever :-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:59:44 +0200
From: "Sasha C." <sasa.cabaravdic@pu.tel.hr>
To: "Ytsejam Mailing List" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Smoke On the Water?
Message-ID: <002801bfe02f$342ccfe0$44f51dc3@sasha>
gilpdawg@webtv.net wrote:
>I may not be sure on this, but as a huge Maiden-DP mark, I believe the
>only time Bruce ever recorded this song was at the Armenian Aid all-star
>charity show, this version smokes with Bruce, Gillan, and Paul Rodgers
>on vocals and Iommi, Blackmore, May, and Gilmour on guitars at various
>points. (they trade off) I could be wrong, but this may be your version.
>If it is it is not DT, most likely, as this was done around 90-91. Hope
>this helps.
Thanx for the info. I think you may be right... The first verse could be
Gillan and 2nd verse for sure is sung by Bruce. I also hear some keyboards
here. As far as the guitars go, well, the quality isn't very good so it's
hard to distinguish one from another... I think the last solo may be by
Iommi, it has that sound of his. And some licks during the song could be by
Blackmore, at least they sound so. I wonder if there's a video
of this available? I'd really like to see Gilmour bangin' that hot-ass riff
as well as the other boys...
NP: SOtW - Pink Purple Black Maiden Queen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:25:39 -0500
From: Brian Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: hm...
Message-ID: <B57E0773.6464%hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
Nononononono. You completely missed my point. What I was getting at is that
most of the "prog" and "progmetal" scene, DT included as of late, has
absolutely nothing progressive about it in the least. In the progmetal
arena, it's all a competition to see who can come up with the shreddingest
blend of Yngwie and WDADU. In the straight prog scene, most of it sounds
like old Genesis. Obviously, these are blanket statements. There are
exceptions; when one is dealing with labels, that is the nature of the
beast. But, by and large, I think it is true.
> That is not really a poor "primer" for prog. If someone new was coming into
> the genre from the evil realm of popular music, you don't give such an elitist
> view of progressive music and you don't win them over by saying "Everyone
> sucks but Tull, Yes, Genesis and Gentle Giant."
I actually don't like Yes or Gentle Giant, or much early Genesis. :) But,
they laid the foundations for the genre.
> Simply because you don't like bands like Blind Guardian, or don't understand
> them, does not mean they aren't progressive.
What about, for example, Blind Guardian, is progressive? They are doing
nothing that hasn't been done before. It's old. It's tired. It's rehashed.
If you dig it, that's cool...I dig the new Maiden, which is old, tired, and
rehashed. Just don't try to pretend there is anything 'progressive' about
it.
Now we get to the crux of the issue, obviously. There are two basic ways of
using the word progressive with regards to music.
1. as a genre designation, a type of music employing lots of time and key
changes etc etc all the other good crap. By this definition, yes, most of
the bands discussed in this forum are prog of one flavor or another.
2. the true sense of the word. Something which marks progress. Progressive.
>That's one of the great things
> about prog, everyone can pull something diffrent from it.
No. No. No. We've already established that "progressive" music actually has
nothing "progressive" about it. So, we are forced to conclude that the term
only has meaning as defined at (1) above. Now, basically the only legitimate
reason for having genre labels is to have a loose way of describing an
artist to someone who has not been exposed to said artist previously, a
loose categorization. Now, if you contend that "prog" can meaningfully
signify different things to different people, the term has become utterly
and completely useless. You've actually stumbled onto what was my central
idea (though it may not have seemed that way at the time, bear with me here,
I'm making this up as I go along ;). To wit...
People should just quit using the word "prog" because in its alluvia of
meanings it is rendered meaningless.
As 'Alternative' has long since ceased to be a meaningful term and become a
label, so has 'progressive.' Alternative is not the alternative to anything
these days, it's mainstream; what most people in prog circles ceased to be
progressive long ago. It is nothing new.
This is my point, and this is why I noted in a few different places that the
outline of 'progressive' that I offered was my own idiosyncratic view. This
passage was the key:
"To me, progressive is not simply a genre full of time changes and odd key
signatures...it is the frontier of music, which actually "progresses" and
stretches the boundaries."
I would like to submit that people should go back to using the term "art
rock" rather than progressive. It is more indicative of what the sound
actually is.
Obviously, nobody gives a shit what I think. Hell, I don't even like prog.
And this has strayed far from what I originally was getting at. But I'm
bored and that's what I think. :)
-Brian
--But it must be mighty crack having your birthday and Christmas all on the one day?
"What, like I'm one year older and Christ is one more year dead?"
-from an interview with Shane MacGowan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:08:49 +0200 From: "Matej Grginic" <izolit@siol.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Kings's X in Ljubljana 23rd Message-ID: <001201bfe038$dc11aec0$0600005a@siol.net>
Hello boys and girls,
I'm slowly recovering from this amazing show and I thought I'd drop you a couple of lines. This was King's X' second time in Ljubljana and it was a magnificent show. They got even tighter and are now officially the tightest band I've ever seen live and that's really tight, cause I saw DT like 5 or 6 times. They opened with Groove Machine and played a couple of their best heavy songs from Tapehead, Dogman and Ear Candy, then they played Julia, BitterSweet, She's Gone and Marshmellow fields from Bulby and the rest was their standard repertoir. Here's the interesting stuff:
Ty played his new signature Yamaha axe tuned down heavily to D and what sounded like C. The weird chordshapes that he played make me think that he tuned the whole guitar differently, too bad I forgot to ask him about that. Mesa crunch is still there but it's not the Mesa rectifiers, he manages to squeeze the same kind of crunch out of the Yamaha digital amp, weird, but it sounded INCREDIBLE. Makes me wanna check it and maybe get one, if they can really sound this good. Oh and 'the froggie' is still attached to the rig :) He used ADA footswitch and a wah, but otherwise I couldn't notice any outboard equipment. Eveything coming from that Yamaha modeling head.
Doug used two of his new Yamaha basses, one J/P tuned to D and one P tuned down to C, pumping through Ampeg SVTII pro (1 old and 1 new) and a rack of equipment that I'll tell what it is when I develope the pics (anyone wants Dougs amp setup? :) He used some pitchshifters (lowering) and other effects on his vocals and it sounded great. He was so into it that at the end of the show he did the Hendrix impersonation, banging his bass in the Ampeg boxes, trying to catch bass feedback (?!), great show :)
Jerry was once again the most kickass drummer you can think of, really squeezing the last atoms of his strenght into kicking those skins. He switched from Pearl to Yamaha drums, but his sticks stay the same (Vater). Awesome backing vocals.
The whole show was recorded by a major radio station and I'll get a copy in a couple of days (anyone interested? trading, NOT selling), it should be awesome quality (Cigarettes, Goldilox and Summeland only audience singing:).
If you have a chance, go see King's X on tour, they'r THE groove machine !!!!!!!!!!!!
Matej, waiting for DT in Ljubljana next moth :))
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:19:17 +0200 From: Oddvar Lovaas <flail@online.no> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Cc: schroedhelm@gmx.de Subject: Symphony X - V Message-ID: <200006271321.PAA29592@mail46.fg.online.no>
>Has someone got the tracklist of the new Symphony X album "V"?
Sure, this is one album I can't wait to get my hands (ears?) on!
1. Prelude (1:07) 2. Evolution (The Grand Design) (5:20) 3. Fallen (5:51) 4. Transcendence (0:38) 5. Communion And The Oracle (7:45) 6. The Bird-Serpent War/Cataclysm (3:59) 7. On the Breath Of Poseidon (3:04) 8. Egypt (7:04) 9. Death Of Balance/Lacrymosa (3:42) 10. Absence Of Light (4:58) 11. A Fool's Paradise (5:48) 12. Rediscovery (1:24) 13. Rediscovery pt. II - The New Mythology (11:57)
This is at least what the unofficial site says. (http://listen.to/teof)
>Please email me privately. Thanks!
Well, someone on the jam might be interested, so I posted it here as well:)
< flail - Oddvar Lovaas - http://www.oddvar.org/ - ICQ: 3253879 >
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:33:59 -0400 From: Joshua Rasiel <josh@on-linedesign.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: DT does Knight Rider theme song cover Message-ID: <3958AD46.66DB4D99@on-linedesign.com>
No, that's a lie, but who wouldn't pay for that, huh?
I wonder if David Hasselhof prepares for those concerts by looking in a mirror and going, "I am a MAN...who DOESN'T EXIST... duh-duhduhduh, DUH-duhduhduh, duh-duhduhduh duh duhhhhhhhhhh...DUH-DUH"
I think maybe the reason he's so popular in europe is that knight rider was AWESOME, people. what about the one where the kid controls KITT with an Atari joystick? Or the face-off against the semi?
No, the real question is why ISN'T david so popular over here. I like to groove to his sound100%, happy yes, party! wheeee!
josh
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:02:57 EDT From: Fett2002@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5522 Message-ID: <6.7e346dd.268a0e11@aol.com>
In a message dated 6/27/00 4:55:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ytsejam@torchsong.com writes:
<< RAISE THE KNIFE Music by Dream Theater Lyrics by O.J. Simpson >>
This alone is funny before even reading the lyrics! -mike C.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:06:10 -0400 From: "Greg Stafford" <thwizard@bellsouth.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 5522 Subject: Dream DVD Message-ID: <NDBBJAOKCLFDIHNFDJMHCEFDCCAA.thwizard@bellsouth.net>
I plan to attend the Cincy show provided my work schedule doesn't change. Bogart's is a bit smaller place than the Tabernacle here in Atlanta, but it should still be one hell of a great show. Hope to see some of you there. The Wizard <begin website plugin>Comedy site Are you a Lazy American? Take the quiz and find out. http://www.lazyamericans.com </end website plugin>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:25:56 +0300 From: Janne Jokitalo <janne_jokitalo@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: We All Need Some Light? Message-ID: <3958B974.844A2845@yahoo.com>
"Sasha C." wrote: > > >If im not mistaken, the disc booklet has the lyrics > >? > no shit? thanx for enlightening me... > I just ordered the damn album 5 days ago, and it'll take at least 3 weeks > until I get the Transatlantic and my copy of Gordian Knot Interview Disc. > So, I asked nicely if someone could post me the lyrics to We All Need Some > Light... I downloaded an mp3 of the alternative mix (btw, there are no > limited edition copies available anymore so don't preach how I'm stealing > from the band by downloading mp3s) and I couldn't figure out what mr. Roine > was singing half the time... that's it.
Okay, chill out, I don't think the dude who replied to this meant it in preaching voice =)
But, it's not Roine who sings on that one, it's a complete Neal tune, he sure as hell sings it too =)
- Rock
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 01:13:32 +1000 From: mikel <mikel@alphalink.com.au> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5522 Message-ID: <3958C49B.616CF296@alphalink.com.au>
I think when the first prog rock bands came, the basic idea was to improve the quality of musicianship in rock music and get rid of the simplicity in rock. 'Progressive' was really a misleading label, as the concept brought to rock were mostly early 20th century concepts. On the subject of electronica; 'Cutting edge electronica' would not fit into the progressive rock catagory because its not rock. There is genres called progressive house, and progressive trance and stuff, but it does not imply the same thing as progressive rock. For someone to bring the concepts of progressive rock to electronica, I think the artist would have to have practised and studied electronic techniques for many hours every day. They would take out the dance/hypnotic element of electronica and replace it with something that is interesting musically (although still listenable, not like John Cage or anything).
> The "official" definition of progressive rock or metal, according to most > publications you might come across on the subjects, is that they're styles, > subgenres within subgenres, not having anything to do with "breaking new > barriers in music". Progressive metal is a label, just like speed or > thrash metal. If you say a speed or thash metal's latest release is their > most progressive, it means that it's closer to the progressive metal sound, > not that they're changing ("progressing").
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:27:11 -0400 From: Adam M Cook <ac003i@mail.rochester.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5522 Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10006271054060.2084664-100000@mail1.ats.rochester.edu>
> From: Brian Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> > Subject: Prog ? > > There are many who carry on the torch of Genesis, Gentle Giant, Yes, > etc. but *they all do the same old tricks.* To me, progressive is not > simply a genre full of time changes and odd key signatures...it is the > frontier of music, which actually "progresses" and stretches the > boundaries. The sad truth is, standard western guitar modes have been > utilized for 40+ years. There is nothing left to be played in them > which is truly progressive. A band can play in A stygian 5/32 and > write lyrics about Gimli and the Elves vs. Saruman, but the fact is, > it's been done (by Blind Guardian, another terrible imitator on the > Magna Carta label). Something truly "progressive" these days needs to
Many people seem to take the label of progressive too literally. There are bands that "stretch the boundaries" of music in all genres, but as a previous poster pointed out, the label of progressive rock or progressive metal is simply a label. It's simply a way of categorizing the style. The bands you cited, such as Shadow Gallery and Blind Guardian, may not be redefining the genre, but musically the title of progressive rock is still applied because their sounds fit the category (perhaps too much at times). I agree with you that I'd like to see less copycat bands, but at the same time it doesn't stop me from enjoying the less original bands if they are able to write an entertaining song. They are obviously playing the music they enjoy the most. Although you may find songs about Tolkien characters to be stupid and nerdy (I disagree greatly with the former adjective but can't really argue with the second), it seems greatly like you are trying to dismiss all these bands from the genre simply because they don't "stretch the boundaries" enough. Can't a good song be written in an already existing genre?
I guess it comes down to personal taste. I also dislike the majority of new copycat progmetal bands. Mainly because the emphasis seems to be on technicality and it sounds incredibly dated at times. Only a few new groups come to mind as combining technicality and new original elements with (IMO) great songs. Personally, I would put Superior and Event in this category. You also mentioned that you think progressive rock bands should draw from electronica or eastern sounds in order to be truly progressive. If it comes down to that, then you're simply defining progressive as which rock band can be the first to combine other styles of music with rock. If we want our bands to be truly progressive, shouldn't we look for completely original styles of music? The only cd I've heard that comes anywhere close to this is probably Mr. Bungle's California cd. I have no idea what to call or how to describe 95% of the music on that disc. At the same time, about 50% of it is pretty unlistenable to me so I'm not sure truly "progressing" is always a good thing.
> I just hate nondescript labels. I know it puts me in the minority, and in a > no-contest fight against standard genre dication, but as far as I'm > concerned, if you call it "progressive," it sure as shit better be > progressing...otherwise the label will appear completely and arbitrarily > meaningless to a newcomer to the genre.
But by your definition, the person who buys a cd labeled progressive would end up with a different kind of music every time. None of the bands would sound similar if they were always changing the style of music. I think that would appear a lot more "completely and arbitrarily meaningless" than somebody who buys any of the stuff on Magna Carta, as watered down as it may be at times.
Adam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:39:51 -0400 From: "Herbert, Jason" <jherbert@biccgeneral.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 5522 Message-ID: <6D70903196D4D11190680008C728A61D04093FE9@HQEXS01>
>So one last thing: >How many people on the jam around or attending the Bogart's show in Cinci? > >-Chris
I'm going to guess....45? ;) (I know I'll be there.)
>Just one further note...this isn't quite true. Many radio stations are >labeled "progressive" for playing things such as The Jayhawks or Billy >Bragg/Wilco. The term still is applied in the sense of "something new to >rock," even if something new is really just something recycled. It's not >just a genre designator for bands following the blueprint of ELP, Tull, GG, >Yes, etc etc etc vis a vis time changes, key changes, et. al. > >-Brian
Interestingly enough, one of the public radio stations around here used to advertise "Great News and Progressive Music," which always kinda bugged me, since they played typical public college radio music (local bands, lesbian folk music, Thistle & Shamrock, etc.). Anyway, they recently changed their slogan to "NPR News and Great Music," which sounds better to me....
On a very tenuously-related subject, Entertainment Weekly (Entertain Me Weakly) recently (1-2 weeks ago) did a brief review of the latest King Crimson disc. They actually gave it a "B," citing the vocals as the weak link. I actually don't know diddly about KC, but I thought this might be of interest to some of you....
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:41:23 -0400 From: "Herbert, Jason" <jherbert@biccgeneral.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: Calcitrant Message-ID: <6D70903196D4D11190680008C728A61D04093FEA@HQEXS01>
oops. I didn't sign that last one....
-Zircon the Blue
"I wouldn't be at all surprised if Wimpy were to snap like a store-brand pretzel and mow down the entire Popeye cast, shouting "It's Tuesday, people! Payback time!'" - The Brunching Shuttlecocks
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:50:29 -0600 From: "Matthew Tedesco" <Matthew.Tedesco@colorado.edu> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: disconnected/prog definitions Message-ID: <006201bfe04f$6bd19a00$c5598a80@fx1f00b>
> From: Adam M Cook <ac003i@mail.rochester.edu> > > Got the new FW in the mail today. Metal Blade delivered as promisd, on > the European release dates. If you're in the US and you didn't order from > Metal Blade direct I guess you're gonna have to wait. You definitely have > my condolensces for having to sit through what's gonna be a long painful > wait as you see all the great reviews pour in for this thing. This is > another monster release. It has all the great things you'd expect from > Matheos and company, but some of the best elements are the unexpected > ones. An incredible disc.
Couldn't have said it any better. Arrived yesterday in the mailbox, and I got a full five listens in yesterday. Sounds to my ears like a nice cross between the brooding atmosphere of Pleasant Shade of Gray and the dark, technical aggressiveness of Perfect Symmetry. It's funny, over on the Spock's Beard mailing list, they're hashing out a debate of Portnoy vs. Peart, and I keep thinking, yeah, agreed, but what about Zonder?
> From: Brian Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> > Subject: Prog ?
Hoo boy. This again. I guess it's about time, if you look at this thing cyclically, that we hit this "definition of prog" thing again. A good stab at Brian's part, better than what most would offer (as something that progresses, or some other such nonsense), but still unsatisfying.
Maybe the best way to think about it is something like a layperson's definition of, say, "blue." (Not the wonderful Bruford-Levin project.) Ask the average person what blue is, and they're likely to point to something blue and say, "that." Push 'em a little further, and maybe they'll say something like, "well, it reminds me of green, but it's different." Maybe they can even describe at as somehow between 2 or 3 different other colors. But push them still further, asking, "I don't want to know what blue is LIKE, or what it reminds me of; I want a definition of blue ITSELF," and I don't think many people would know how to respond. It'd be wrong to suggest, though, that because of this they don't know what blue is. And, hey, there are times when I see blue and others see green or purple. There's common ground, but to the layperson, room for dispute.
Maybe the definition of prog should be left a something like this.
--matt
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:16:43 -0300 From: Alexandro Talamini <Alexandro@Boticario.com.br> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: 1999 Christmas CD Message-ID: <1EC071008C02D4118B8D0020484030574425F7@CORREIO>
Hi jammers,
I'm really desappointed. After sending payment for a subscription on the DT Fan Club, I got a message telling I would get my first fanzine as well as the Christmas CD in April. On the last week of that month I asked you jammers if anybody else was in the same situation, because I had gotten nothing then. Many people made comments mentioning the same. Someone from the DTIFC wrote telling that April was a bit optimistic, but it would be on its way soon.
Well, it's end of June, I got the Spring fanzine but *NOTHING* of any CD so far. Wierd because other jammers mentioned that they got their Christmas CD along with the fanzine.
On the past couple of weeks I e-mailed the DTIFC twice. Didn't do it more times to avoid boring people (I think 2 e-mails is more than enough). So, guess what?? No answers so far.
QUESTION: What should I do??
A war flames does not interest me, but no matter what's going on to the CD production, I think I (and others, if there are any) deserve, at least, more *RESPECT*.
Alex Curitiba, Brazil
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:29:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian D Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5522 Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0006271123220.3716-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Adam M Cook wrote:
> because they don't "stretch the boundaries" enough. Can't a good song be > written in an already existing genre?
Yup. I was using a generous helping of hyperbole to make my point.
> you think progressive rock bands should draw from electronica or eastern > sounds in order to be truly progressive. If it comes down to that, then > you're simply defining progressive as which rock band can be the first to > combine other styles of music with rock. If we want our bands to be truly > progressive, shouldn't we look for completely original styles of music?
Good point, good point. Hmm.
> The only cd I've heard that comes anywhere close to this is probably Mr. > Bungle's California cd. I have no idea what to call or how to describe 95% > of the music on that disc. At the same time, about 50% of it is pretty > unlistenable to me so I'm not sure truly "progressing" is always a good > thing.
I would say it is. Even if it's unlistenable now, it may be the foundation of something great down the line.
> But by your definition, the person who buys a cd labeled progressive would > end up with a different kind of music every time. None of the bands would > sound similar if they were always changing the style of music. I think > that would appear a lot more "completely and arbitrarily meaningless" than > somebody who buys any of the stuff on Magna Carta, as watered down as it > may be at times.
Quite true, which is why I later moved on to what I think is really my point...to drop the label "progressive" altogether.
Or maybe I'm just talking shit since I was up all night trying to fix a toilet and getting nowhere.
-Brian the amateur plumber
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:04:54 +0200 From: Daniel Wannemacher <dany@cs.uni-sb.de> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: David H. Message-ID: <20000627190454.A819@jimi.cs.uni-sb.de>
> Does anyone have any possible kind of rational explanation why David > Hasselhoff is popular in Europe? He's especially big in Germany if I'm not > mistaken. What's the deal with this? > -mike C. I have an explanation, but I'm not really sure if it were that way: Knight Rider was one of the first series that were shown by the first private TV-channel (RTL plus, at that time). And if I remember right it was shown on a daily basis, which, besides news, was also new in the german TV market. Everyone was curious what private TV has to offer so everyone watched.... After that, a record called Night Rider was released which contained 'rock' music, (not having heard it myself). It never received any airplay and David was lead into releasing some commercial crap, and it were just that: commercial successful, but crap.
I guess this is why Knight Rider and David H. were/are so popular....
Just speculation....
-dany -- Daniel Wannemacher 'And if I don't see you no more in this world, dany@cs.uni-sb.de I'll meet you in the next one, http://on.to/dany But don't be late............' -J.H.
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:04:39 -0600 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Progressive Folk Music? Message-ID: <002601bfe05a$2e3ef6a0$0201010a@chuck>
> advertise "Great News and Progressive Music," which always kinda > since they played typical public college radio music (local bands, > folk music, Thistle & Shamrock, etc.). Anyway, they recently changed
Well, it's like I've mentioned before... One of the music stations on Direct TV is termed "progressive" and that's exactly what they play. Freakin' Tracy Chapman, Indigo Girls, the Lick Sisters, etc... I have no idea where they even thought to coin progressive to that stuff, considering it's about as regressive as music can get. -- KorgX3 listens to that station while eating grass and wearing cutoff Levi's that crawl all he way up to his crotch. YeeHAW!
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:18:17 CEST From: "Ricardo Testa" <ricardotesta@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5521 Message-ID: <20000627171817.35782.qmail@hotmail.com>
Korg Ecksthrey posted:
>Not at all. Remember that David Hasselhoff is God in Europe. Who do >you think Michaelangelo was conceiving when he crafted the statue of >David, anyway? I guess in Germany and Italy, Knight Rider and Baywatch >are a religion, and state laws require you to attend one concert of his >per year. Hell, I'd even wager that Ricardo has jammed with him, too.
I am sorry Krog, but I have never "jammed" with David Hasselhoff. But I did "jam" with Edward Mulhare.
>KorgX3 thinks that David Hasselhoff is gay.
Gay? I would NOT be surprised.
I actually believe that Hasselhoff is related to US footballs's Dan Marino. Look at them, they look alike.
By the way, Is anyone on this mail list going to the July 16 Roma show?
Ciao, Ricardo Testa ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 13:36:10 -0300 From: "Carlos Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: We All Need Some Light? Message-ID: <001701bfe055$cd104220$37351ec8@yunque.net>
> Okay, chill out, I don't think the dude who replied to this meant it in > preaching voice =) > > But, it's not Roine who sings on that one, it's a complete Neal tune, he sure as > hell sings it too =) > > - Rock >
Well i kind of did mean it like "if you buy the disc, you get the lyrics". Anyways, i dont think Neal sings this one, the vocals on the verses sound wierd and completely un-neal like. Now the chorii, well..thats another thing.
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5523 **************************
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