YTSEJAM Digest 5363
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5361
by "I-Man" <inavarro@mdo.net>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5360
by Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5356
by Fett2002@aol.com
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5360
by "Adam Yarter" <jaguirre@ix.netcom.com>
5) Re: Boy Bands
by Fett2002@aol.com
6) ytsejam digest 5361
by Jon Parmet (DTS-52) <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
7) Jazz Guitarists/Al DiMeola
by Greg Kristianson <gkristia@ucalgary.ca>
8) Traci Lords (was Re: Carmen Electra)
by Jon Parmet (DTS-52) <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
9) welcoming in the new millenium
by Jon Parmet (DTS-52) <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
10) James on the drums?!? ATLANTA show review...
by Adam Pye <alpine1@mindspring.com>
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5361
by Adam Pye <alpine1@mindspring.com>
12) Kez, guns, and Coldfire.. What a combo!
by "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5360
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
14) Re: Thought disorder, gun control...
by Trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5361
by "gaz" <graham@renegade2K.com>
16) Re: Kez, guns, and Coldfire.. What a combo!
by "gaz" <graham@renegade2K.com>
17) RE: YTSEJAM digest 5362
by "Greg Stafford" <thwizard@bellsouth.net>
18) Re: Kez, guns, and Coldfire.. What a combo!
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
19) die corporate music die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Joe Bissonnette <jabisson@cdr.wisc.edu>
20) guns in america
by MAD1661@aol.com
21) You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
22) Re: Kez, guns, and Coldfire.. What a combo!
by "gaz" <graham@renegade2K.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 23:38:12 -0500
From: "I-Man" <inavarro@mdo.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5361
Message-ID: <006001bf8401$2d514dc0$626c8acf@freelark>
Guys, guys, guys, please! Not only is this seriously NDTC, but NO GOOD can
come from this topic.
/I-Man places hand on hip, points, and says, "Oh NO! Don't go there!" as his
head orbits his neck.
>
> This is such a loaded and off-topic subject that I'm not going to get into
> it, except to say one thing: it's quite sloppy brainwork to apply the
> experience of one culture to another, when they have completely different
> mores and situations. Most Euros think they're superior because of their
> anti-gun legislation...<snip>
> -Brian
>
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Martin Wilde wrote:
>
> > Don't you really think it's time that America grew up and restricted gun
> > sales to the army and police? You're not living in a frontier state
now,
> > guys. Why do you need to have the damn things? We don't need them in
> > Europe. Our civil liberties are not infringed by our being legally
unable to
> > possess a weapon to shoot eachother with when we're tempted to.....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:52:34 -0500
From: Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5360
Message-ID: <20000301.225708.-982049.0.Axeman_dannl@juno.com>
In an epiphany, KorgX3 uttered:
>I *seriously* think they should execute that 6 year old kid in Michigan
and
> set an example to kids that this sort of shit is intolerable. Fuck
peace
> and love.
Yeah, and fry the jackass who gave him the gun, too. I'm all for 2nd
amendment rights, but stupid people deserve to die.
Although, somebody had a not-too-shabby idea of beating the crap out of
'em in public.
Ya know, if we were feeling curious, we hook the two of 'em up in
parallel, fry 'em at the same time and find out which one of them has
(had) a higher electrical impedence.
Then some dumbass (trying to kindle the flames... :-) posted this.
>Don't you really think it's time that America grew up and restricted gun
>sales to the army and police? You're not living in a frontier state
now,
>guys. Why do you need to have the damn things? We don't need them in
>Europe. Our civil liberties are not infringed by our being legally
unable to
>possess a weapon to shoot eachother with when we're tempted to.....
hey, why don't you go to www.worldnetdaily.com and read the story about
the two seperate instances in Houston in the last week in which armed
convenience store workers have protected themselves and their customers
from armed robbers.
Wait... DUH!!! Stupid me, I can't believe I didn't catch it before -
you're a friggin' SOCIALIST EUROPEAN. OF COURSE you're against guns.
Every european I talk to says we should get rid of guns. Yeah, maybe when
it comes around, WW3 will knock some sense into you guys after we go over
their and save your asses AGAIN!
-Dan.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
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else's turn!
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 23:35:34 EST
From: Fett2002@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5356
Message-ID: <d3.220809c.25ef4996@aol.com>
<< Some cool things:
Amazing Grace before Through Her Eyes (thanks Sarah for noticing!) >>
Yes, this was EXTREMELY cool!
-Mike C.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:47:51 -0800
From: "Adam Yarter" <jaguirre@ix.netcom.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5360
Message-ID: <001001bf6ba6$576bf7e0$fb72fea9@adamyart>
> I *seriously* think they should execute that 6 year
> old kid in Michigan and set an example to kids that
> this sort of shit is intolerable. Fuck peace and
> love.
You cocksucker!! No, just kidding. I'm not sure
about execution, but I think that the fucking kid
should be tried as an adult. He took someone's life.
Let the state take his away from him. Execution?
Maybe. Life in prison? Hopefully
It's hard for me to say that, just because at six you don't understand what
you did. Then again, where do you draw that line? I'm sick of people taking
the lives of others for no reason. They should throw that kid in juvie till
he's 18, then try his ass as an adult. That's how I feel about gangsters
too. I live in Cali, and I'm accustomed to hearing about "some homie poppin'
a cap in another's ass". My sis is involved with these people, and I hate
it. I think that if you're in a gang, you've commited murder by
assosciation. I mean, my god...
This killing spree has to end somewhere, and if executing a 6 year old does
it, so be it.
Livecrime
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 23:47:09 EST
From: Fett2002@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Boy Bands
Message-ID: <4d.1c30142.25ef4c4d@aol.com>
<< I'm surpsrised at how many of you people could still continue to watch Pro
'wrestling' after making such accusations. Pro Wrestling is completely
manufactured and fake, no? Oh, but is that different? >>
It sure is. There are no forms of professional wrestling that aren't like
this, as opposed to music. Plus, 100% of the audience of porfessional
wrestling knows it isn't real. And it's only the outcomes that are
predetermined. Make no mistake, people can get pretty damn hurt in those
matches. When Mick Foley falls off the top of the hel in a cell cage, he
really falls. And no one takes wrestling seriously who watches it. Its a
comedy thing. I'd agree with you if there were fans of the boy bands who
listen to them because they think it's cheesy and enjoy cheesy music but such
is noi the case.
>Maybe those guys who
>really get the shit knocked out ot them in the UFC look at you like an idiot
>for watching the fake shit?
You mean like Ken Shamrock? He's one of the toughest guys to ever perform in
the UFC who then went on to the WWF. He's now going to be doing more of the
UFC stuff by the way.
-Mike C.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:11:59 GMT
From: Jon Parmet (DTS-52) <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: ytsejam digest 5361
Message-ID: <200003020511.FAA16058@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
let it be known that the previous digest has been one of the best digests i can
remember reading in quite a long time.
there's so much in there, i don't even know where to begin, so i think i'll
just read it again :) for those in ack mode, you really should get the digest
from the archives. it's the one after another and the posting style here as much
as the individual posts that make this one a classic.
jon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:12:55 -0700 (MST)
From: Greg Kristianson <gkristia@ucalgary.ca>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Jazz Guitarists/Al DiMeola
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.10.10003012201570.115802-100000@acs6.acs.ucalgary.ca>
DiMeola rocks! Casino and Elegant Gypsy are by far some of his
best work, although any prog fan would be wise to check him out with
Return to Forever, especially the album "Romantic Warrior". Another one
would be his outtakes album from the "Kiss My Axe" sessions aptly titled
"Suck My Pick" (I couldn't resist!). Other good jazz guitarists to check
out would be Charlie Christian, Jim Hall, Tal Farlow, Pat Martino, John
Scofield, Stanley Jordan, and Scott Henderson.
Greg-o
NP-King Crimson: Frame by Frame 1969-71
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:20:32 GMT
From: Jon Parmet (DTS-52) <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Traci Lords (was Re: Carmen Electra)
Message-ID: <200003020520.FAA03964@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
dthomas:
> I have heard some of the Traci Lords CD, though. And it's about what you'd
> expect it to sound like.
and in a related story, marilynn chambers vocal acheievements can be
attributed to the fact that she is more of an accomplished head-voice
that a chest-voice singer...
jon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:42:52 GMT
From: Jon Parmet (DTS-52) <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: welcoming in the new millenium
Message-ID: <200003020542.FAA11560@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
Greg:
> if it's longer than three minutes, doesn't have the generic
> ngh-chicka-ngh-chicka beat, or have the words "baby" or "love"
> in the lyrics, it sucks.
that might explain why many DT fans rejected FII, eh? couldn't come to grips
with the hypocrisy of an otherwise sweet tune, full of some truly wonderful
Portnoy Polyrhythms and other complexities being so brutally hoovered into
into mediocrity with the line:
'tide is turnin' now, BABY'
;)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 00:54:51 -0500
From: Adam Pye <alpine1@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: James on the drums?!? ATLANTA show review...
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000302003904.00a12240@pop.mindspring.com>
Hey folks...
Yep, James LaBrie took over on drums to end the show tonight in Atlanta
(while Portnoy did a James imitation on the vocal mic). Didn't do much
except bang around and count beats until the ending "crash" of sound, but
it was one of the many interesting novelties at the show tonight (plus he
looked more comfortable behind the kit than Petrucci ever did doing
Nightmare Cinema). :-) This will be brief as I've got work in about,
well, 10 minutes... :)
Star People: I was pleasantly surprised after seeing some of the negative
comments on the 'Jam. Not a band I'd really get into, but they've got a
bit of talent and did a good job for a 25 minute set.
Dixie Dregs: Amazing. Even when his left-most cymbals actually FELL OFF
the drum riser, Rod Morgenstein was a monster. I don't know if they've
been doing an encore at any of the other shows, but they did one here
because "Atlanta is kind of like home for us..." Great stuff...
Dream Theater: Were I going to nitpick, I'd say the show was a bit too
short, the selection of songs after SFAM was a bit weak, and I've never
heard them fuck up Pull Me Under (of all songs) as heinously as they did
tonight (James just stopped singing they were so off) - but I'm not going
to nitpick. :-) They were great tonight. James was ON - no question
about it. Petrucci, Portnoy, Myung and Rudess were also spectacular, but I
think James really made the show. The folks that have been commenting
about how much better he has gotten as a pure frontman are 100% correct -
much more stage presence than I've seen out of him in the past. We got
treated to little Melody Portnoy, complete with mini-headphones, sitting in
with her daddy and "played" (from the standard "in daddy's lap" drumming
posture) a bit during Through Her Eyes.
The Atlanta crowd was much better than I had expected, this being much more
Dregs country than Dream Theater (the "classic rock" station in Atlanta
mentioned the Dregs a few times, but never DT that I heard). According to
James, the show was sold out (very surprising, considering the Tabernacle
holds more than 2000), and they were very pleased with the turnout. People
seemed very into it from my position in the middle of the second tier of
balconies. Unfortunately I didn't have time to wait for the band after the
show, but I'll see them again in a couple of days (when I don't have work
in the morning).
That's about all I've got - just wanted to thank DT, the Dregs, and the
Star People for a great show. Now, onto Orlando!!
Take care all...
Adam
_________________________________________________
Adam Pye
alpine1(-at-)mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~alpine1
^^ Above URL for tape/cd list w/ setlists
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 00:59:43 -0500
From: Adam Pye <alpine1@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5361
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000302005615.00a1ae50@pop.mindspring.com>
Hansen bitched...
> > I didn't hear anybody complaining when we got there, either -
> > and if they did have a serious problem, I might have considered going
> > to the back of the line.
>
>I think you hear people complaining now. You may want
>to note this for future reference.
Can we possibly find a more irrelevant subject to whine about? Jesus, I've
never seen so many anal retentive people collected into one list. So he
cut in line (and we only know about this because he wrote an email saying
how nice someone was to save him a place) - get over it. If you were in
line behind him and took offense, fine. If not, shut the fuck up....
/me hates having to flame, but some people simply deserve it... Anyone got
a life? This guy needs to borrow it... sheesh...
Adam
_________________________________________________
Adam Pye
alpine1(-at-)mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~alpine1
^^ Above URL for tape/cd list w/ setlists
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 00:28:06 -0600
From: "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Kez, guns, and Coldfire.. What a combo!
Message-ID: <38BE09F6.FE98DEA@isd.net>
Kez wrote:
>I'd sooner take my food away, then live with losing tunes.........
That was cute! :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Hayden wrote:
>This is such a loaded and off-topic subject that I'm not going to get into
>it, except to say one thing: it's quite sloppy brainwork to apply the
>experience of one culture to another, when they have completely different
Holy Shit! Brian, I think we have found some common ground. How quickly
they forget. I was going to reply to his post... But I thought is was best that
I just bit my fucking tongue and kept the peace.
I own multiple firearms and usually hunt every fall. I know if the shit ever hit
the fan I could still feed and protect my family. I don't shoot ANYTHING I
don't intend to eat. (with the exception of target practice) And I've NEVER
been compelled to go on a rampage simply because I had the hardware.
Currently I only own one hand gun (6" .357 mag stainless Ruger) and I
ALWAYS carry it as a sidearm when I'm in the woods. It saved my ass four
years ago when I stumbled into a bear that had apparently been injured
by a car or truck. My shotgun was loaded with #6 bird shot when the beast
expressed his dislike of my presence. The bird shot would have only pissed
him off. When he was within 20 feet of me I discharged three 125 grain
jacketed hollow points (hot hand loads) in rapid succession and waited...
He dropped just eight feet in front of me. Then I cleaned my shorts.. :)
Guns are not, nor have they EVER been the problem.. People are the problem.
Firearms are nothing more than a power tool. (Labor saving device) Any tool
misused or in the wrong hands is dangerous. Let's not confuse the the real
issue by assigning blame to inanimate objects.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coldfire wrote:
>Guy? *Coldie looks down her shirt*....nope...definitely not a guy!
Would you like a second opinion?
--
Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist
^
Switchcraft Microsystems
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of
that comes from bad judgment" --Will Rogers
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 01:30:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5360
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10003020129250.34286-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Adam Yarter wrote:
> It's hard for me to say that, just because at six you don't understand
> what you did. Then again, where do you draw that line? I'm sick of
> people taking the lives of others for no reason. They should throw
> that kid in juvie till he's 18, then try his ass as an adult.
There's only one problem with this theory: In the U.S., you can't try
somebody for the same crime twice. This means that if you really wanted
to do this, you'd have to hold the kid for twelve years without trial
before he was tried as an adult. That's HIGHLY illegal.
-------------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu
http://cout.dhs.org/
Cloak on IRC
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------------
"I'm not a vegetarian because I like animals.
I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants."
-- A. Whitney Brown
-------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:46:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Thought disorder, gun control...
Message-ID: <20000302064650.13535.qmail@web505.mail.yahoo.com>
> > Don't you really think it's time that America grew
> up and restricted gun sales to the army and police?
I just don't get this shit. Criminals are going to
get guns no matter what. Outlawing guns will only
take them away from honest people who don't want to
hurt anyone. That entire line of "logic" is total
shit. If someone could hand me a goldplated guarantee
that The Bad Guys wouldn't have guns if they were ever
banned, then I might be a bit more open to the idea.
As it is, I think I'd rather just ban criminals than
guns. But that's just me...
=====
*Trent
If I had something funny to say, I'd say it here.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 17:49:47 +1100
From: "gaz" <graham@renegade2K.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5361
Message-ID: <200003020850.DAA15779@sampa.simpleweb.com.br>
> Can we possibly find a more irrelevant subject to whine about? Jesus,
> I've never seen so many anal retentive people collected into one list.
> So he cut in line (and we only know about this because he wrote an
> email saying how nice someone was to save him a place) - get over it.
> If you were in line behind him and took offense, fine. If not, shut
> the fuck up....
>
> /me hates having to flame, but some people simply deserve it... Anyone
> got a life? This guy needs to borrow it... sheesh...
I totally agree, bitching about every fucking thing under the sun......
You are not content with gigs in their state, general admission
shows. Nothing is perfect in this life........
I am tired you you spoilt wankers who have everything and still want
more and more, a gig in your town, in your street, blah blah
blah.......
The silver spoon has been shoved so far down your throats your
gagging on the cake and gasping for something else to complain
about...
gaz
My Homepage
The Instruments Of Random Progress
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ytsejam
Reviews & Interviews
http://www.renegade2K.com
My Footwear
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ytsejam/livecd's.htm
'If you don't have a sense of humour or are too stupid
to understand sarcasm don't complain to me, because I don't
give a shit'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 17:53:35 +1100
From: "gaz" <graham@renegade2K.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Kez, guns, and Coldfire.. What a combo!
Message-ID: <200003020854.DAA15871@sampa.simpleweb.com.br>
> Guns are not, nor have they EVER been the problem.. People are the
> problem. Firearms are nothing more than a power tool. (Labor saving
> device) Any tool misused or in the wrong hands is dangerous. Let's
> not confuse the the real issue by assigning blame to inanimate
> objects.
That's crap, if you don't have the guns in the first place then end of
story...
Why does anyone need a gun ?
As they say on the news here whenever there's a tragedy like this
'only in America'
Truer words have never been spoken :)
gaz
NP Mayadome - Near Life Experience
My Homepage
The Instruments Of Random Progress
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ytsejam
Reviews & Interviews
http://www.renegade2K.com
My Footwear
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ytsejam/livecd's.htm
'If you don't have a sense of humour or are too stupid
to understand sarcasm don't complain to me, because I don't
give a shit'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 02:06:18 -0500
From: "Greg Stafford" <thwizard@bellsouth.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 5362
Message-ID: <NDBBJAOKCLFDIHNFDJMHEEAOCBAA.thwizard@bellsouth.net>
Metropolis, 2000.
The stage became dark as the lights faded. I was standing within the
Tabernacle now in the dark. Sounds from the stage ring out into the crowd.
With the first note played, the band begins. For 30 minutes sounds
continued. Then once again it was dark.
Shortly after the lights returned after the sounds had ceased.
Soon after the lights once again dimmed and shadows of people took the
stage. Then the lights and music began and the Dixie Dregs began their show.
With that they played as if it was their last concert. It was an incredible
show of talent.
Then once again the room grew dark and then the lights returned.
The Dream Begins.....
The room went black. As mysterious as Metropolis: Scenes From a Memory, the
music began without an intro or a word spoken.
They continued into the night still a mystery. The night continued without
rest. One of the highlights I saw was when Mike had his daughter in
headphones to protect her ears onstage with him behind the drum set during
one of the slower songs. It was truly something she will never forget and to
see her enjoying herself, I won't forget the joy in her eyes either. Very
cool Mike :):) Hugs to your daughter.
The night continued without rest.
Then the lights returned and we were whisked back into reality. The Dream
had ended, but not without Scenes from A Memory.
The ringing in my ears of the sounds and scenes that filled my senses still
a strong memory, one I will soon not forget. Now the stage is empty and
everyone has gone home, but for that moment we all shared the same dream,
met new people and enjoyed the same music. Thanks to all that I met that
made it fun. Thanks to the bands that gave us something to remember for a
livetime. In a years time I will once again see them and the dream shall
carry on.
To those still waiting to see Dream Theater I kept it mysterious cause if I
told you everything what would be the reason to go. It's like if I were to
run and see a mystery and come back and tell you the ending. What reason
would you have to see it after I told you?
For those of you that have seen the show. I hope the experience I had
equaled yours and the vague description above matches your experience as
well.
To those about to enter the Dream, sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride.
Atlanta Show 2000
Follow your Dreams,
The Wizard
<begin website plugin>Comedy site
Are you a Lazy American? Take the quiz and find out.
http://www.lazyamericans.com
</end website plugin>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 02:25:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Kez, guns, and Coldfire.. What a combo!
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10003020218260.36710-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, gaz wrote:
> > Guns are not, nor have they EVER been the problem.. People are the
> > problem. Firearms are nothing more than a power tool. (Labor saving
> > device) Any tool misused or in the wrong hands is dangerous. Let's
> > not confuse the the real issue by assigning blame to inanimate
> > objects.
>
> That's crap, if you don't have the guns in the first place then end of
> story...
> Why does anyone need a gun ?
Because they hunt. The fact of the matter is this: The kid's parents are
at fault for not teaching him what is good from bad; the kid's parents are
at fault for leaving a gun where a SIX-YEAR OLD could find it. The kid's
parents are at fault for letting him bring a gun to school. They're at
fault for leaving a LOADED gun in the house where a six-year old could
grab it.
All these reasons are valid, and, if the kid had been properly educated in
what is right from wrong, then the kid is to blame as well. But something
tells me that this isn't the case. There is a limit to how much a person
can be held responsible, and I don't honestly believe that a six-year old
is old enough to know better, unless the parents have deeply instilled
what is right from wrong at an early age.
When I was six years old, not only did I know what was right from wrong,
but I already knew much of what sexuality was about. I knew what death
was, and I knew what a gun could do. Why? Because my parents instilled
all these things in me at a young age so that when I was older I could
make responsible decisions for myself.
> As they say on the news here whenever there's a tragedy like this
> 'only in America'
>
> Truer words have never been spoken :)
Bullshit. This "tragedy" would never have happened if the parents knew
what the fuck they were doing. I think adults should get a child-rearing
license; I mean, fuck, they need a license to drive a CAR, but not to
raise a child? The real tragedy is that the social services didn't take
this kid away from his parents sooner because they were total fucking
idiots. If they had done THEIR job, none of this would have happened.
You can't blame movies, television, or music for the violence that occurs
in schools today. But you CAN blame parents for not teaching what needs
to be taught. Obviously there are going to be wackos (like those guys at
Columbine) that will do stuff regardless of what they've been taught. But
I don't believe that a child of only six years has learned enough to BE
wacko.
-------------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu
http://cout.dhs.org/
Cloak on IRC
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------------
Once I wept for I had no shoes, and then I met a
man who had no feet. So I took his shoes. I mean,
it's not like HE needed them, right?
-------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 01:44:00 -0600
From: Joe Bissonnette <jabisson@cdr.wisc.edu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: die corporate music die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000302014358.008f2b00@cdr.wisc.edu>
So I've been lurking for a while, but I just got done with a really nasty
homework assignment and feel the need to rant.
>From: Greg Kristianson <gkristia@ucalgary.ca>
wrote about piss-nut corporate music.
>whatever. While musical snobbery is indeed prevalent, I, Mr. musical snob,
>often find *my* musical tates to be the subject of ridicule
>from the Britney Spears set, not the other way around, as you would imply.
>It seems it's uncool to listen to anything that requires thought, or the
>slightest bit of attention; i.e. if it's longer than three minutes,
>doesn't have the generic ngh-chicka-ngh-chicka beat, or have the words
>"baby" or "love" in the lyrics, it sucks. The shitty thing is that art as
That's more the ticket. It's not a matter of them being talentless, or our
music being 'better' than theirs, or whatever. The irritating thing is
just the degree of control over the music scene that is held by a bunch of
lame old white guys. As music consumers whose needs aren't being met by
the powers that be in the music business we have a right to pissed off as
muthafuckers. Damn! If someone decided that Devin Townsend was cool and
put his music on the radio the world would be a better place. Music is to
a large extent a 'you are what you eat' sort of deal. The music you make,
by and large, is going to sound like the music you listen to. It would
make me happy if the next generation of talented musicians were listening
to creative things like Devin and DT and that sort (mostly just Devin).
Cool music would proliferate. There would actually be bands that come to
town that I would want to see. But instead we get watered down shit that
plays to the lowest common denominator to sell the greatest possible # of
albums. Now not only do we get Korn, who sucks ass, we get 50 clones of
Korn who suck even more ass. There is definitely something wrong there,
and don't any of you assholes try to tell me there isn't. I mean, my god,
did you see all the shit Santana just won? I like Santana as musician (or
used to anyway), but c'mon that album was absolute crap. Slap a few big
names on the back of the album, and, whew, Santana (you know him from VH1's
Where the Fuck is He Now?) is the world's greatest superstar. 'I used to
think like that last year, but now I'm grown up and appreciate listening to
crap too...wah wah' Whatever dude. As someone with the ability to
discriminate good music from shitty music, it's your duty to let the world
know what good music is*. Not because we want to force it on everyone, but
so that they know there is a such thing, and that there are people (read
consumers) who want it. So anyone who wants to rail away against corporate
spoonfed, Desmond Child, shitty music, rail away, I say! ...just not
here, cuz we heard all that crap before.
*disclaimer: Before you even start, NO I'm not passing absolute judgement
on the value of one piece of art over another, just saying 'good from our
point of view'.
Thank you and good night.
joe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 02:41:19 EST
From: MAD1661@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: guns in america
Message-ID: <a2.1600ced.25ef751f@aol.com>
well yes there is a problem with kids and guns today in America, but i would
rather talk about Dream Theater then this guns bull shit... Anyway i had an
awesome time at the DT concert in philly. MP got my friend and i after show
passes.. These guys are real class acts.. I hope you all remember that
everyone in here really likes DT and who gives a shit about all the bull shit
we have to see every day.. Please talk about the things we enjoy then the
things we do not agree on... Just a request Thanx.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 01:13:45 -0700
From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
Message-ID: <001401bf841f$4dbc9380$500d84d0@default>
> Why does anyone need a gun ?
What's the difference? You take someone's gun away, they'll use a knife.
Take their knife away they'll use their bare-hands. Guns are simply blamed
the most simply because they're the most deadly tool. Besides, I would be
willing to bet that if you took guns away from the average citizen here in
the States, crime would nearly double. Guns will still be available to
whoever wants them. It would just be another social problem just like
drugs, only people would start killing each other for their guns. :P The
criminals would have the guns and have alot less to fear knowing that John
Q. Public didn't have his .38 special in his nightstand anymore.
That kid in Michigan could just as easily have stabbed that little girl to
death. It wouldn't make any difference. Dead is dead.
--
KorgX3 notes that throwing rocks at cop cars is not a wise thing to do.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 19:21:50 +1100
From: "gaz" <graham@renegade2K.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Kez, guns, and Coldfire.. What a combo!
Message-ID: <200003021023.FAA18341@sampa.simpleweb.com.br>
> Bullshit. This "tragedy" would never have happened if the parents
> knew what the fuck they were doing. I think adults should get a
> child-rearing license; I mean, fuck, they need a license to drive a
> CAR, but not to raise a child? The real tragedy is that the social
> services didn't take this kid away from his parents sooner because
> they were total fucking idiots. If they had done THEIR job, none of
> this would have happened.
I hear your bullshit, give you my bullshit and raise you a bullshit :)
The bottom line is, thus:
If there was no gun their would have been NO shooting, right ?
gaz
My Homepage
The Instruments Of Random Progress
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ytsejam
Reviews & Interviews
http://www.renegade2K.com
My Footwear
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~ytsejam/livecd's.htm
'If you don't have a sense of humour or are too stupid
to understand sarcasm don't complain to me, because I don't
give a shit'
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 5363
**************************
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