YTSEJAM Digest 5460
Today's Topics:
1) Union...
by "David Ware" <d.ware@rpc-corby.co.uk>
2) Update
by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rnar?= Bevolden <bjornar.bevolden@hm.telia.no>
3) Elektra compilation
by "M P" <mremann6@hotmail.com>
4) Re: copyrights, liability and Napster...NEXT! on Oprah
by Robb Muise <robbm@shore.net>
5) OIaL / Lame n' Stale
by "Awake ." <awake@buffymail.com>
6) RE: Peat
by "Herbert, Jason" <jherbert@biccgeneral.com>
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5457
by Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
8) Return of the Shredi
by Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
9) my comment on mp3s and the Electric Factory
by Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
10) Re: JL as DaVinci?
by Cluck42@aol.com
11) UII vs. Children of the Damned
by "Webmaster Ytsejam.com" <webmaster@ytsejam.com>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5459
by "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
13) Accesory?
by Jim <jim@beracah.com>
14) Re: more napster
by jOHN jENS <jjens@webzone.net>
15) Re: copyrights, liability and Napster...NEXT! on Oprah
by jOHN jENS <jjens@webzone.net>
16) My rant on Napster, Metallica, difficulty of instruments
by "Rainer" <rainer@internetezy.com.au>
17) More Yes and more Napster (yawn), but at least I quote Bafu :)
by Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com>
18) the "N" word and stuff
by "tomas valodka" <tvalodka@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:40:33 +0100
From: "David Ware" <d.ware@rpc-corby.co.uk>
To: "ytsejam" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Union...
Message-ID: <000d01bfb5a4$69472f00$1f010032@corbyedp4>
]From SteveZ:
>I know it's hardly newer Yes, but doe anyone else out there
>think that "Union" is really cool? I'm diggin it this week.
>(Keep in mind I don't really like Yes.)
Yeah I'm there - I love Union. For many reasons, and as I said earlier I
particularly like the Trevor Rabin stuff. Top song on the album....? Well I
would go with "The Miracle Of Life" or maybe "Lift Me UP", just to give you
guys an idea of what I like. There was also a mention of "Open Your Eyes".
I have to say that I really love this CD as well - it has it's low bits and
pieces, but it's a cracking Album mainly.
I think I've just changed my stance on the Trevor V Steve debate, it's
nothing to do with them - it's all about Chris - he's is the driving force
of Yes (IMHO), wherever he is - Yes will be...
Dave (a UK jammer).
NP: Tarrasque - In Possession (Ok I admit it - it's my old band demo).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:40:03 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rnar?= Bevolden <bjornar.bevolden@hm.telia.no>
To: "ytsejam@torchsong.com" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Update
Message-ID: <39114573.A489F03E@hm.telia.no>
Hello!
Barcode has been updated 3/5-00.
Reviews:
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Proloud: Fickle=20
Scenes: New beginning (ex Dreamscape)
Sonic Debris: Live report
Spiral Architect: A sceptic`s universe
News:
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Riot, Rhapsody, Crimson Glory, Zakk Wylde, Threshold, Concerto Moon,
Tribute news etc..
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A new update will follow shortly, with reviews of Axxis, Concerto Moon,
Heavenly etc..
All the best,
Dylan and Bj=F8rnar!
Bj=F8rnar NP: Moon Doc- Realm of legends
--=20
Writer for:
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Easy earned extra income?? http://xtradinero.com/ Accesscode: bbev
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 04:52:55 EST
From: "M P" <mremann6@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Elektra compilation
Message-ID: <20000504095255.16130.qmail@hotmail.com>
> > From: jOHN jENS <jjens@webzone.net>
> > Subject: copyrights, liability and Napster...NEXT! on Oprah
>Progression Magazine often sends out an awesome sampler with the mag.
>A few issues ago, I got into Gordian Knot because of a Laser's Edge
>sampler. The most recent issue had a Cuneiform Records sampler, and
>turned me on to Boud Deun and Philharmonie.
Cuneiform sampler? fuck, sign me up!
nothing like stuff that hits an 8-9 on the weird-shit-o-meter
>Good thing they haven't sent out an Elektra sampler. I'd probably be
>in jail for having a copy of a Metallica song that I didn't pay for.
you laugh... but I've got one of their compilations.
from 1998, recognizable bands:
Phish, Wilco (gut twist), Better Than Ezra (gut twist),
Natalie Merchant (you decide), Pixies, Sugarcubes, and
Dream Theater (Caught in a Web)
>From: "Awake ." <awake@buffymail.com>
>To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
>Subject: Re:Yes, Metallica
>the (feasable) supergroup I'd like to see is Anderson, Bruford, Page,
>Squire & Wakeman! After all, Squire tried
>it with the XYZ project, and Pagey wants a new band
put him in Conspiracy (still need to get this disc)
See if he can mingle with Squire and Sherwood.
>But then, it sounded nothing
>at all like YES, because it was effectively an offcut from
>an aborted Squire solo album featuring Billy Sherwood.
No longer aborted (see above)
D/J
NP: Scriabin "Prometheus"
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 07:26:34 -0400
From: Robb Muise <robbm@shore.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com, Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: copyrights, liability and Napster...NEXT! on Oprah
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000504072558.00b1e7e0@pop.ecosoft.com>
actually.... Using an addon program napster no longer is used only for
mp3's.... it can be used for Warez as well..
Ain't it the greatest =)
At 11:35 PM 5/3/00 -0700, Isaac Sabetai wrote:
> > the difference between ftp/web sites and Napster is that Napster does
> > not hold the data in question. only ftp/web sites that physically (if
> > you can call a bunch of electrons physical) contain the data are
> > shutdown. (ever come across a dead link on a warez site? yeesh.) the
> > only information Napster sees is where to get the data; they don't store
> > the actual data.
> >
>Only a pirate would hide behind this lame and pathetic excuse. No other
>business besides and Internet company would offer this as an excuse. You
>know why-- because all real businesses have to take, or the government
>has to force them to take, responsibility for the actions of their
>products.
>
>The auto industry is required to install seatbelts in all its cars and
>abide by federal standards to protect the passengers. Cigarette
>manufacturers are required to put a warning label on all packs. Alcohol
>companies can't sell their product to people under 21. IN NO WAY AM I
>COMPARING THE CONSEQUENCES OF NAPSTER TO THOSE OF THE PREVIOUS
>BUSINESSES. Those are just examples to illustrate a point.
>
>The point is that you have to look at the intent of the product and then
>address whether it violates any laws or harms a sector of the population
>and then assess the product's value against its negatives. Napster has
>one purpose to trade MP3s. I'm pretty sure over 90 percent of the MP3s
>available on the Internet are illegal. So logic says Napster has ONE
>purpose, which is to facilitate access to illegal MP3s. How anyone can
>say Napster is doing nothing wrong is beyond me-- It is a specific
>accomplice to a crime.
>
>Sure someone will say "Oh what about the Internet and ISPs as a whole."
>Well, those businesses provide access to many legal and beneficial
>sites. But when a company's entire business is based on providing access
>to illegal material, there is a huge problem-- one it must take
>responsibility for.
>
>Isaac
------------------------------
Date: 4 May 2000 12:37:03 -0000
From: "Awake ." <awake@buffymail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: OIaL / Lame n' Stale
Message-ID: <20000504123703.3098.qmail@whitfield.chek.com>
>From: IAmClay777@aol.com
>Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5456
>Can we not have any Layne Staley bashing? First off, he
>is off it, second, it was people ripping open his
>private life and tearing apart his personality by
>syaing such things that made him dislike touring...
I know absolutely nothing about his personal life, and I
couldn't give a shit if he was/is on smack, whatever. So
I'd say that gives me impunity to say that all that aside,
he still can't sing for shit.
I mean, did you HEAR that cover of Another Brick In The
Wall?! It would have been great if they'd got a singer
instead of a name to do the vocals!
>> Derek wasn't perfect,
>Derek kicks ass up and down and all over that bitch.
He's pretty much on form, but sometimes the mixing lets him down; I don't think he ever really did get that killer
Hammond tone on tour, and the first minute or so of LITS
(basically the keys intro and the band intro) is horrible.
>> and JP's tone was absolutely awful.
>I thought his tone was great.
No way! It's absolutely AWFUL! The lead tones on L@TM and
OIaL are both really good (better on the former, though);
but this tour aside, Petrucci's live rhythm guitar tones
have been really terrible. It's almost as if he doesn't
care about playing backing parts! Oh. Errr...Hang on...
>> As it goes, OIaL is a very poor live album, really.
>
>great solo spots from JP and DS.
To be honest, much as I really like the solo spots - MP's
in particular, and that's from me who can't play drums to
save his life!! - I think they're a waste of valuable
playing time. It's the same with those spots of Toto's
Livefields disk - they're all great bits of music, but
they're taking up time on the disk which could have
fitted in two more songs!
~Simon
Sign-up for free Buffy the Vampire Slayer e-mail at
http://www.buffymail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:40:58 -0400
From: "Herbert, Jason" <jherbert@biccgeneral.com>
To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: Peat
Message-ID: <6D70903196D4D11190680008C728A61D026B2029@HQEXS01>
Steve Z wrote:
>"...People need their ISP's, be it for work or to
>talk to their loved ones who live far away, or whatever. The good
>(legal) outweighs the bad. Napster, on the other hand, is used primarily
>by kids/people who don't want to shell out any dough for their music
>because they're using all their money to keep their beepers activated.
>It's primary function is to distribute illegal copies of copyrighted
>material. The bad outweighs the good.
>> you shouldn't be able to sue Napster.
>Sure you should. They do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to enforce violations of
>their terms of service. Napster is automatically an accesory to an
>illegal act."
The legal precedent established by the (US) courts is that a manufacturer
cannot be held liable for the illegal use (or intentional misuse) of their
product. [The specific case that yielded this ruling escapes me at the
moment. Perhaps after another cup or two of coffee it will come to me.]
Should it be any different for software providers?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:34:57 -0400
From: Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5457
Message-ID: <20000504.085614.-973689.4.Axeman_dannl@juno.com>
> Say your a 56k dialup user who dials in on the 123.123.45.1-256 range
> Each time you connect you get an ip from that pool..
> They can easily block out 123.123.45.*
> therefore your not able to connect. Dynamic does not mean unlimited
IP's
But then they'd be blocking several people that use the same ISP, right?
Or is that the point?
-Dan.
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:32:08 -0400
From: Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Return of the Shredi
Message-ID: <20000504.085614.-973689.3.Axeman_dannl@juno.com>
>it has been made more poular through the blockbuster George Lucas movie,
>Return of the Shredi.
Anybody got any idea who came up with the pun "Return of the Shredi"??? I
thought a buddy of mine did, but now that I see you guys writing it, I
think that maybe he didn't...
-Dan.
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:53:41 -0400
From: Dan Costello <axeman_dannl@juno.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: my comment on mp3s and the Electric Factory
Message-ID: <20000504.085614.-973689.5.Axeman_dannl@juno.com>
> Same here, IMO, mp3 should be limited to low quality versions of full
songs, or
> high quality samples. And not permit almost cd quality of full songs.
That way
> at least there is SOME incentive...
That's not gonna help any. Most of the people that I know who hoard mp3's
are not very discriminating in their musical tastes, i.e. they think
Everclear has the greatest riffs known to man and that Live has an
awesome live sound. So I highly doubt that they'd care if their 2 bit per
second mp3 sounds like shit. You could be sitting in the room with those
bands and they'd STILL sound like shit. :-)
>> >< didn't somebody tell me that expedia.com SUCKS? Well, them and
the
>> entire city of philadelphia. Satch was playing some venue called the
Electric
>> Factory which is on Willow St. Well, aparently, most of Willow St.
(which is
>> just an alley) is on the east side of the city ><
>
> Don't blame philly for expedia.com's wrong information. The Electric
Factory
> is on Callowhill st. between 6th and spring garden.
"Aaah, I see," said the blind man... Ticketmaster has it listed as being
on Willow St. which it's apparently not. I could find Callowhill in my
sleep now...
-Dan.
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:57:15 EDT
From: Cluck42@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: JL as DaVinci?
Message-ID: <77.39fa1ad.2642cdab@aol.com>
hello all!
I apologize- all I ever do is ask questions when i post things! <d'oh!>
anyway, here is another one...i heard a while ago that LaBrie played DaVinci
in an opera. anybody know how that sounded? id like to get the cd if
possible- anyone know what its called and where it can be purchased? thank
you much!
ROSE
cluck42@aol.com
"Our deeds have traveled far, what we have been is what we are."
-Dream Theater
"There's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
-Hamlet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 05:53:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "Webmaster Ytsejam.com" <webmaster@ytsejam.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: UII vs. Children of the Damned
Message-ID: <20000504125332.9079A40B9@sitemail.everyone.net>
on 5/4/00 "Steven Zebrowski" - if that is his real name - replied:
>> I would just like to point the uncanny (that is to say,
very much
>> unlike a can [sorry]) resemblence that Metallica's
"Unforgiven II"
>> has to Iron Maiden's "Children of the Damned" - hell it's
even got
>> the same intro solo.
>Hmm...while the intro solos are completely different and
>Unforgiven II is just far more interesting, I certainly hear
>a resemblance.
- OK "Same" was the wrong word to use but there are striking similarities.
Metallica was a fan of Iron Maiden way back - James was playing the riff for UII and said he thought it sounded familiar - he recognized it as the same chords as Unforgiven. I wonder now if he was subconsciously thinking of IM's CotD.
On a similiar note - it was reported that Kiss paid Alice Cooper a chunk of money becasue a song on their last album sounded a lot like "Eighteen" - Kiss apparently didn't question it and just handed the money over.
-Koggie "not koogie"
==
Free Email Accounts at www.ytsejam.com
_____________________________________________________________
This email originated from Ytsejam.com. Free email accounts for fans of Dream Theater. 6MB of Storage and no limit on file attachments.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 06:28:58 PDT
From: "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5459
Message-ID: <20000504132858.93843.qmail@hotmail.com>
>At least... I don't ... THINK they will ...
>They can't ... DO that ... can they??
probably just me, but I couldn't help thinking about William Shatner in
those old Star Trek episodes when i read those lines....
psm
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 08:57:23 -0500
From: Jim <jim@beracah.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Accesory?
Message-ID: <391181C3.CEE4B7D7@beracah.com>
Time for one of my rare de-lurks...
Someone stated:
> > you shouldn't be able to sue Napster.
>
> Sure you should. They do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to enforce violations of
> their terms of service. Napster is automatically an accesory to an
> illegal act.
>
This statement REALLY scares me.
Why? Because if Napster is an accesory to an illegal act, then the
ENTIRE INTERNET is an accessory to not only illegal trading of MP3's,
but to kiddy porn, drug trafficking, computer hacking, and so on, and so
on....
Also by this logic, the US Postal service should be sued everytime they
intercept illegal drugs being shipped, after all, they didn't do enough
to stop it!
If Napster falls, then it could snowball from there, where does it stop
then? When everything on the Net is monitored for "illegal activity"?
Sounds pretty Orwellian to me!
Jim aka Roadie
NP: ASIA: Archiva
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:26:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: jOHN jENS <jjens@webzone.net>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: more napster
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005040904410.12740-100000@darkhorse.webzone.net>
On 05/03/00 2:21pm, thus spake Steve Z:
| beepers activated. It's primary function is to distribute illegal
| copies of copyrighted material. The bad outweighs the good.
i wonder if that's what their business plan reads. heh. its function has
been outlined by its users, not the company itself. the company is not
responsible for the action of the users of its software.
| > you should be able to sue Napster.
| Sure you should. They do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to enforce violations
| of their terms of service. Napster is automatically an accesory to
| an illegal act.
you're sure that they don't enforce their terms of service? maybe not on
as wide a scale as you or the recording industry would like?
| > the music industry (note the industry part) is running scared. and they
| > very well may run directly over your rights. fight the power. rip the
| > system (nice pun). hack the planet. etc.
| What rights? Our rights to obtain goods and services illegally?
yep. but seriously, i was thinking further down the line. it'll start
with Napster and then snowball until we're in _1984_, as Jim pointed out
in his post:
| This statement REALLY scares me.
| Why? Because if Napster is an accesory to an illegal act, then the
| ENTIRE INTERNET is an accessory to not only illegal trading of MP3's,
| but to kiddy porn, drug trafficking, computer hacking, and so on, and so
| on....
| Also by this logic, the US Postal service should be sued everytime they
| intercept illegal drugs being shipped, after all, they didn't do enough
| to stop it!
| If Napster falls, then it could snowball from there, where does it stop
| then? When everything on the Net is monitored for "illegal activity"?
| Sounds pretty Orwellian to me!
-- jOHN jENS jJENS@wEBZONE.nET http://sHELL.wEBZONE.nET/~jjens------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:53:34 -0500 (CDT) From: jOHN jENS <jjens@webzone.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: copyrights, liability and Napster...NEXT! on Oprah Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005040927010.12740-100000@darkhorse.webzone.net>
On 05/03/00 11:35pm, thus spake Isaac Sabetai:
| > the difference between ftp/web sites and Napster is that Napster does | > not hold the data in question. only ftp/web sites that physically (if | Only a pirate would hide behind this lame and pathetic excuse. No
aayyy, matey! lame as it may seem, it's true: Napster doesn't reposit the data.
| other business besides and Internet company would offer this as an
because no other business outside the Internet *can* say that, save telecommunications companies.
| excuse. You know why-- because all real businesses have to take, or | the government has to force them to take, responsibility for the | actions of their products.
hey, Internet companies are just as real as 7-11's or Coca-Cola or Time-Warner. "real" businesses are jealous they can't IPO like a tech stock, make no profit with none foreseeable in the next 10 years and *still* have their stock price rise.
| The auto industry is required to install seatbelts in all its cars | and abide by federal standards to protect the passengers. Cigarette | manufacturers are required to put a warning label on all packs. | Alcohol companies can't sell their product to people under 21. IN NO | WAY AM I COMPARING THE CONSEQUENCES OF NAPSTER TO THOSE OF THE | PREVIOUS BUSINESSES. Those are just examples to illustrate a point.
um, yeah.
| The point is that you have to look at the intent of the product and | then address whether it violates any laws or harms a sector of the | population and then assess the product's value against its | negatives.
welcome to Capitalism, where none of this ever takes place! welcome to reality.
| Napster has one purpose to trade MP3s. I'm pretty sure over 90 | percent of the MP3s available on the Internet are illegal. So logic
where are you getting your stats? your ass?
| illegal MP3s. How anyone can say Napster is doing nothing wrong is | beyond me-- It is a specific accomplice to a crime.
Napster is doing nothing wrong.
what about IRC? Napster works the same way IRC does (in regards to trading mp3s). therefore, the makers of all IRC clients should be sued, since mp3s can be (and are) traded over IRC. and the ISPs that host the IRC servers get sued, too.
-- jOHN jENS jJENS@wEBZONE.nET http://sHELL.wEBZONE.nET/~jjens
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 01:03:15 +1000 From: "Rainer" <rainer@internetezy.com.au> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: My rant on Napster, Metallica, difficulty of instruments Message-ID: <LPBBKHEPKNGGBEODHONIEEBOCAAA.rainer@internetezy.com.au>
All rise, I'm about to deliver my mad rant on the Metallica and Napster issue...(sorry I've just come back from watching Gladiator and I'm in that kinda mood)
I remember reading or hearing somewhere that James used to spend hours at Lars's place copying albums of bands that he liked when the band was just getting started. It's good old human nature at work and plain old fashioned hypocrisy on their part. When it's to their benefit it's fine but when it hurts their own pockets it's another matter. It seems Metallica has lost touch with their humble beginnings. This is an argument that can't be won it just depends on which side of the fence you are on. I'm all for people paying for other people intellectual property but then this should be enforced and apply without exception. You can't blame the medium (i.e. Napster), it's people's intentions that are the problem. Whether it's the internet, videos or the print media, you can't blame the medium. All these mediums have been used for things for which they were not originally intended. Do we sue all manufacturers of hi-fi systems because they facilitate the copying of music? Why not sue makers of CD burners, video recorders and tape recorders? The medium in itself is unbiased and is great when used for it's intended purpose, Napster can be and has been used as a way for unsigned bands to promote their music (which is legitimate if the owners of the intellectual property agree).
On the difficulty of singing, playing guitar etc...Singing is more difficult than playing guitar for those people who have a natural affinity for the guitar and vice versa. Just deal with the skills you have been given, try out all instruments and see which one you have a natural affinity for.
I have spoken (you may all sit down now) :) My verdict: (thumbs down) Feed them to the lions!!!
- Rainer
ps. I'm really impressed, there are some smart cookies on this list!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:16:42 -0400 From: Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: More Yes and more Napster (yawn), but at least I quote Bafu :) Message-ID: <20000504111642.A22867@optical.mindstorm.com>
On 2000-05-04 at 01:18 -0700, ytsejam@torchsong.com <ytsejam@torchsong.com> truly believed:
> Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:14:17 -0400 > From: "Steven Zebrowski" <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu> > Subject: nap, maiden, dman, tallica, sing > > You know, D-Man, your return to the 'jam has caused me to > change my mail reader to a fixed-width font, just so I can > see your sig. :)
That's the way God intended for mail to be read. :)
> I know it's hardly newer Yes, but doe anyone else out there > think that "Union" is really cool? I'm diggin it this week. > (Keep in mind I don't really like Yes.)
I can't listen to that whole album at once. It is, in essense, two separate albums by two separate bands on one disc. There's really nothing unified about it. Squire rounded his troops, Anderson called in the old hands (and Bruford brought his pal Levin along), and they wrote and recorded separately, with the exception of Jon singing on some Trevor stuff, and whatnot.
To me, it's a good ABWH album with some crappy YesWest tracks thrown in. But that's just my ever-so-biased opinion.
---
> Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:05:18 EDT > From: EvoReaper@aol.com > Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5458 > > And what's up with those stupid "=20" things stuck next to the end of each > line...damn you.
It's got something to do with the mail server's inability to handle funny characters (like Bafu -- er, I mean, like a y with dots on it).
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> Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 02:14:35 EDT > From: Uroborosss@aol.com > Subject: privacy > > I think Metallica is using the list of names to show Napster that it CAN be > done, that you CAN track down copyright-ignoring miscreants.
I stand corrected, after reading the same thing in a few other places. Still...
> > On the other hand, Napster should be fucking shot for letting this > > happen. How did this NetPD firm get this information? > > How dare the C.I.A. know where all my relatives live. My relatives should be > shot for allowing the government to know so much.
Yeah, but good luck finding them. :)
> Metallica could have hired a single, lonely hacker to do the same > job. Asking how anyone "got the information" is like expressing > amazement that someone solved a puzzle you thought couldn't be > solved. I don't see what's so incredible about this situation.
Well, not entirely. Now, I don't know what Napster claims to protect or not, but there's a difference between watching my dad solve the Sunday Times in ink, and signing up to listen to some music and getting a phone call saying "Mr. Merlo, you accessed "Am I Evil?" on Thursday the 18th at 5:47 pm Pacific time. We'd like to discuss a few things with you." When presented with a blank crossword puzzle, there's an expectation that it will be solved by *someone*. But when some freshman History major goes to Napster to get the latest track by that orchestra with the guitar player, he or she has no expectation that it'll come back to bite him or her in the ass.
Now, had Napster posted something on the web site, or in their software, saying "We know who you are and what you download", then I'd feel differently. But when Metallica hires some third party, that I have as yet been totally unable to get any details about, to sniff that kid's packets, then there's something rotten in Denmark (and not just at Lars' house).
> I try to argue with D-Man, and he pulls stuff like this... :)
You clearly made the mistake of attempting to take me seriously. :)
> Stop expecting and stop trusting. Keep your private information to yourself.
You're preaching to the choir here, Bafu. I've read about enough horror stories to be careful. Then again, I also have an advanced degree in Computer Science, and I know the pitfalls. I refer you again to the freshman non-scientist. Who's warning him or her?
> Scribbling down all the names that appear on the packages at the post office > isn't the same thing as opening all the packages and running away with a > cartload of other people's stuff. How is monitoring a bunch of e-mail
Yes it is, if you're not supposed to be behind the counter. It's a federal offense for a reason -- the expectation of privacy.
> addresses the same as stealing private property? And if you're so concerned
It is, because those (physical) lines of communication belong to *someone*, and if you steal information, it's the same as stealing snail mail.
> about the theft of private property, what have you done to combat .mp3s? Do > you have any .mp3s on your computer? What's taking you so long to shut down
Sure. I have a couple from my band, a couple that I ripped from CD so I don't have to run into the other room every time I want to listen to something else, and that one of the Romanian piano guy playing Ytse Jam.
> the internet, D-Man? Why are you even USING the internet in the first place > when it's basically a giant 24-hour theft-mart? > > hehheh "theft-mart" ... lol
Heh heh. Thank you, drive through.
It's not a theft mart. It's an information-sharing mart. Just because someone uses it for illegal purposes doesn't make it bad. The benefits of owning a car far outweigh the dangers inherent in driving (even if you drive a pimp mobile, like a Firebird :).
> Or is it just suddenly unacceptable when Metallica enters the fray, stealing > private property along with the millions of other people who have been doing > it for years?
Look, I'll be the first to say that the kids that steal music are wrong. My problems with the whole issue are these: First, Metallica's members learned to appreciate, and decided to write, their first style of music by stealing it -- copying tapes, what have you. They're being hypocrites. Second, the people who download mp3s so that they don't have to buy the CD won't buy it anyway, so I don't see how they're losing revenue (which isn't the real issue, but it's the one they're railing against). And third, and perhaps most important, two abuses of Internet technology don't make a right. Just as it's wrong to kill someone who killed your best friend, it's wrong to steal from someone who stole from you.
> Why haven't I stood up and called you silly for unveiling the contents of > your hard-drive to millions of web-surfing maniacs? Metallica examines your
Because my drive is protected. I only allow access to certain files in my httpd and ftp directories. Everything else is off-limits.
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> Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 02:45:49 +0000 > From: Isaac Sabetai <isabetai@bu.edu> > Subject: Re: copyrights, liability and Napster...NEXT! on Oprah > > > the difference between ftp/web sites and Napster is that Napster does > > not hold the data in question. only ftp/web sites that physically (if > > Only a pirate would hide behind this lame and pathetic excuse. No other
Wrong. Napster has rights, too. There have been court decisions recently on just this sort of thing.
> business besides and Internet company would offer this as an excuse. You > know why-- because all real businesses have to take, or the government > has to force them to take, responsibility for the actions of their > products.
Wrong again. No one has sued Pontiac because people drive drunk. Everyone wants to equate the laws of physical things to the laws of the Internet, but everyone seems to want to do it selectively.
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> Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 03:09:36 -0500 > From: Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com> > Subject: Misquoting James... > > Woops yall are right. > I changed my signature and Im sorry James i didn't mean to do it.
Now if you'd just stop walking people with the bases loaded... oh, sorry, wrong Hampton. :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough d-man@dreamt.org "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates cmerlo@mindstorm.com /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.dreamt.org/d-man \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:29:20 -0400 From: "tomas valodka" <tvalodka@dreamtheater.zzn.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: the "N" word and stuff Message-ID: <D3D2E39989124D11DABE000A9C0B5C5E@tvalodka.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
With all this hubbub going on, I figured I'd check out Napster. I was surprised it's such a small d-load. Anyway, I found lots of NON copywritten stuff that I've never seen before. I really think that things like Napster have practical uses, the question is in the ethics of the user and the responsibility of the company to enforce compliance to laws to a reasonable point. Maybe guns are a good example (similarly controversial at least). You can make a gun, and regulate sales of certain types and to certain people, but you can't prevent bad apples from buying or stealing guns to use in crimes. Some people buy guns to protect themselves, or shoot recreationally, or to hunt. Others get them to shoot other gangs (L.A. version of recreational shooting), rob liquor stores, or poach game. The gunmaker or retailer has no way to control whether a user is shooting a legal deer, or out of season/undersize etc. This is where LAW ENFORCEMENT steps in. In this case I believe Napster has a responsibilty to regulate the traded content to a point, beyond which the matter would go to some sort of law enforcement entity. Perhaps the solution will be some sort of copyright "signature" in the mp-3 itself.(also useful as a guarantee of quality) Sites like Napster , or maybe even applications like WinAmp would look for theses signatures to determine legitamacy. Provide an illegal mp3, get booted. Also this would have to be on the end of the provider, since there's no way to tell before you download. I wouldn't be surprised if companies start providing music via the internet (mp3 or the next big thing) on a buy by song or album format. I read about a new thing Sony has in devlopement that stores a couple hours of music on a chip. You could go to "insertbandname.com" and buy an album to download or just the new single. I couldn't guess where the Metallinapster thing is going to go, but I think the issue will lead to solutions like I mentioned. Personally, I believe Napster has a good amount of responsibilty to control what happens via their service, but the way things are right now, they're also probably limited in how much they can regulate. I question the ethics of the college kid who invented Napster so he could find mp3's faster, but if he wants to play big business in the grown up world, he's gonna have to play by grown up rules. Metallica has turned into a bunch of money-grubbing whores, but in this case they're money-grubbing whores that are RIGHT. I didn't think this at first, but reviewing the various points of view on the jam, and new info coming out about the case, I'm on the side of the musicians. Metallica is just carrying the flag for all bands in this case. The site said you could choose whether or not others could view the contents on your HD, but then again it said copyright violators would be banned. Nothing to hide on my HD (except that panty shot of Gillian Anderson) but just curious how much someone can see if they wanted to. D-man? Anyone? Anyway, I found DT doing "Red Barchetta" and it's d-loading as I type. Anyone have any info what show this is from? Carpal tunnel kicking in after this post, so y'all can expect a break from my ramblings for at least a few days. ;) Gone Fishin' NP: Blind Guardian "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" (makes me want to play D&D again)
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5460 **************************
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