YTSEJAM Digest 5943
Today's Topics:
1) Various forms of Progressive and the convergence therein
by Cyberwolf <ninja@mindspring.com>
2) ProgDay; Dragon*Con
by "Paul W. Cashman" <pellaz@atl.mediaone.net>
3) Re: stuff
by "Ambassador Nelaskon" <moc_liam@mail.com>
4) Re: Progday
by Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com>
5) Re: repetition/Vai too rehearsed
by Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com>
6) ANGULAR
by "Lawrence" <mikel@alphalink.com.au>
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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:46:22 -0400
From: Cyberwolf <ninja@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Various forms of Progressive and the convergence therein
Message-ID: <3B87BA3A.50DA9D6A@mindspring.com>
Various forms of Progressive and the convergence therein
So much for the prog rock, prog metal and keyboard prog statement of 'ne'er
shall the two twain meet'. I think the blending of audiences for the various
subgenre's of progressive music, be it keyboard based, metal in nature, or even
ambient, is diverse. Sure, there are some people with tunnel vision, or
unadventureous, but some of the more interesting and tolerant people in the
scene delve into these sub-genre's at a whim, like myself. Granted, as with
any other form of music, or artistic expression, one sometimes must personally
weed through much musical brush to get to artists that speak to them on an
individual level, but the more festivals (NEARFest, ProgPower, Powermad,
Progday, etc, etc, etc, et al...) the better, I say... At least I hope so!
Pertaining to my personal project, the VIRTUALITY CD, I am blending allt he 3
elements together myself, and while it takes a number of listens to 'digest'
hopefully, something different will shake the masses up to a little anomally in
the music world (and with that statement I am not necessarilly refering to my
own stuff or limited to)...
Anyhow, if anyone is interested, it refers to Rush with some Tangerine Dreama
nd Kitaro thrown in, a mixture of slight Fates Warning/Dream theater elements,
and a definite trance ambient atmosphere. Below are some links, and a review
posted at UNDERTOW.
Scott Mosher, Dandy Fop, Master Neurosurgeon and musician.
RE: VIRTUALITY CD
Ambient, neo-progressive cyber rock with a cinematic flair for the dramatic and
evocative.
LINKS: http://www.theambientmind.com/virtuality/
TO ORDER: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/mosher
REVIEW: http://members.tripodnet.nl/spincity/newreviews3.html
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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:45:15 -0400
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <pellaz@atl.mediaone.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: ProgDay; Dragon*Con
Message-ID: <3B87E42B.C23@atl.mediaone.net>
> From: The Original Irish Bastard <irish_bastard@bombshelter.ca>
> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
> Subject: ProgDay 2001
>
> WHO: Pain of Salvation (playing their only North American appearance)
> The Flower Kings
> Arsnova
> The Muffins
> Azigza
> YETI
> Sigmund Snopek III
> Polydactyl
> WHERE: Chapel Hill, NC at Storybook Farm
>
> For more information, head to www.progday.com. Summer's almost
> over, so why not end it with a long weekend of thirteen progressive music
> acts, prog vendors (over a dozen including the Laser's Edge and
> Syn-Phonic), outdoor fun and like-minded fans?
Uh, because I'll be at Dragon*Con in Atlanta watching Spock's Beard
instead? :) www.dragoncon.org
(Arrgh, Pain of Salvation only 4 hours away and I can't go.....)
At least I can catch Flower Kings, too....
-- +--- Paul W. Cashman, pellaz@atl.mediaone.net ICQ 4151223 ----+ | Website: http://people.atl.mediaone.net/pellaz/ | | or www.paulcashman.com :) | +---------------------------------------------------------------+------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:05:37 +0800 From: "Ambassador Nelaskon" <moc_liam@mail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: stuff Message-ID: <20010825180538.28258.qmail@mail.com>
First off, I apologize. That URL should have beenm http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/mainmenu.html
My bad. This is the URL to get the info on the TD tour dates.
- Big quoted section here -
>>> "Well, don't kill yourself trying to be too PC. I don't like the way the majority of them sound either. Yes, there are exceptions, but in general it's just annoying to me. That "Survivor" song from Destiny's Child is among the most annoying piles of crap I've ever heard. >> >>Anyway, white people do that same kind of crap, but if we think real, it's like this. I know several black people who kick ass. But I do not like the R&B / HipHop stuff one bit. A majority of their 'musicians" and "singers" are black. That's not our fault; so I hope you don't apologize too much for it. :)" > >I vehemently disagree with this statement, but the worst of it is it only reflects poorly upon the messenger. Of course, this being a DT/Progressive discussion group/message board/digest, we ourselves are the victims of enough misinformed ignorami and surely many stereotypes about prog exist and are even perpetuated by people. Some are true, some aren't but the point is sometimes NOT to add fuel to the proverbial fire. <<<
- End quoted section -
Okey, now, did you notice that I said there were exceptions? Of course, there are going to be interesting things in every style. Not all black peopel sing in that manner, and some of other cultures do too.
I said quite clearly that there were exceptions to the rule. But if we look at the *RULE*, we see some interesting things.
1) Most black singers are in the R&B/rap styles. 2) Most R&B/rap music is very annoying to these ears. 3) Most of the annoying singers are black.
Yes, there are exceptions. I didn't mention that "Independent Woman", also by Destiny's Child, was a song that I actually liked, even though I don't care for the band or general style at all.
Of course, if you dig through the crap, there will be great things. But *in general*, there is a lot of crap in that style vein. Of course, others may not think there was all that much crap at all. It is opinion.
But I make no apologies for that opinion. Just as one has the right to like it all, I have the right to think that 95% of it sucks.
>>> For some good Hip/Hop & R&B, my opinion, check out: Outcast, Sade, Innocence, Earth Wind & Fire, <<<
Now now, Sade is not really R&B. SHe is more jazz-contemporary. And you are right, she is quite good. As for Earth Wind & Fire, they are also not what is *curreltly* called R&B. They were of the old breed, and with a disco influence. They were a frikkin awesome band IMO.
I didn't know many of the other artists you mentioned. SOme of them I did not like. I will say that Michael Jackson's "Thriller" era stuff was cool IMO, and I heard some Run-DMC stuff that I also thought was pretty cool.
These are the exceptions to the rule. Also, I think the time periods have a lot to do with it. Especially with the name R&B ... It used to be a viable music form, and now R&B has nothing to do with "Rhythm and Blues" at all IMO.
Once again, I know of some kickass black people, and some awesome black singers. I think Sonique's "It Feels So Good" (?) was really good. Also, I detract from Limp Bizkit, Eminem, and even Nightwish because I don't like their singers, who are white. In fact, I am getting tired of all those mainstream rock singers all sounding the same.
It's not a racially biased thing. The point is, I find a *majority* of Rap/HipHop/new R&B stuff to be very annoying indeed. Most of the annoying singers I refer to are black. Therefore, I am annoyed by most black singers. Not all, but most.
Perhaps that makes more sense. If not, oh well. I think some "music" just sucks, and we can disagree all we want. :)
- Cyaron --
"Never stop dreaming, because your dreams will never die. When you forget how to dream, you forget how to live." - Max Verran
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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:26:40 -0500 From: Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Progday Message-ID: <20010825.152642.-346441.0.kurt.hampton@juno.com>
<WHO: Pain of Salvation (playing their only North American appearance)>
Not true they are playing in jersey along with Symphony X. Now thats a show.
Did anyone get the Satch DVD that just came out? how is it?
Kurt
Kurts Trade Page: www.geocities.com/kurt_labrie/Startpage.html Ytsekurt on AOL IM "Cmon Orlando Shake you f*ckin booty" James Labrie 3/3/00
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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:14:03 -0700 From: Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: repetition/Vai too rehearsed Message-ID: <B7AD713A.2472%schansen@cts.com>
on 8/25/01 4:36 AM, ytsejam@torchsong.com at ytsejam@torchsong.com wrote:
> Well, there's always two sides... > > On the one hand, a "music" performer usually only says > a few scattered things. It seems a little ridiculus > for them to repeat the same two short "jokes" or > phrases or gags every night. > > On the other hand, other live performers (comedians, > plays, etc.) repeat themselves night after night. It's > expected to be pretty much the same every time.
Yeah, but do comedians tell them WORD FOR WORD? Nope - they adlib at least a little, even if the jokes are still the same - they have that conversational quality seeing as their audience is different each night. But with Vai, he had the lines memorized and just said the same *exact* thing at each show (by the third show, I was able to say everything Vai said without a batting an eyelash). Didn't even say anything like "Hello <insert city name here>!" Just the same "It's a pleasure and honor to be playing for you people tonight". Now I'm not expecting Vai to have a conversation with the audience at all, but his in-between comments could have that conversational quality about them.
I mean Petrucci at least made a brief joke about playing a hotel here in San Diego between two of the tracks and then proceeded to introduce one of the songs and then the following night, he did not introduce the same track, but introduced a different track. Of the three guitarists, I'd expect JP to have the rigid, memorized in-between song phrases all planned out, seeing as he was completely out of his normal element (being a solo artist as opposed to being in a band). But even JP didn't do that - Vai, the professional that he is, shouldn't have to either.
Scott
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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:51:02 +1000 From: "Lawrence" <mikel@alphalink.com.au> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: ANGULAR Message-ID: <000e01c12de2$55586600$0f65a1ca@mike>
Angular or sometimes obtuse is used to describe some artists art and it has nothing to do with what you are talking about. Both words are not entirely correct terms, and are usually used loosely to describe properties that are difficult to explain without example.
For those of you who are confused, 'angular' is usually used to mean that the artist 'approaches his art from an unusual angle' so to speak. Another expression could be, they 'look at guitar playing from a different angle'.
For example, looking at Pettruci's playing it is fairly obvious the direction he takes in writing his part. A guitarist can normally see how he may have come up with his lines (eg. because they are based on fairly cliched excercises, or patterns that fall easily under the hands etc). The same can be said for players like Al Di Meola, Steve Morse, and most subpar rock players. Sometimes this approach can work (as it does for Petrucci, Meola, Morse), because often these lines are the ones that sound the best, and are often easier to swallow for non-guitarists. Sometimes this approach can just make you look boring and cliched. On the other hand, a guitarist studying Holdsworth, Vai, Metheny or McLaughlin's lines may think to himself, "how did this guy think up this phrase". It is difficult to see the direction they took to arrive at the phrase. Often this is because it may fall unnaturally on the fingers, or have bizarre, inexplicable intervals for example.
> Maybe I can add to this... > > Main Entry: an7gu7lar > Function: adjective > 1 a : forming an angle : sharp-cornered b : having one > or more angles > 2 : measured by an angle <angular distance> > 3 a : stiff in character or manner : lacking > smoothness or grace b : lean and having prominent bone > structure > > Angular is often used as an adjective to describe > music or guitar playing. It is based on definition 3a > above. More simply, it means "non-melodic" (i.e. no > traditional or easily accessible melody) >
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