YTSEJAM Digest 6506
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Sound good?? and Re: Flamewar history
by Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
2) felling proggy
by Billy920@webtv.net
3) my take on the 'ryche
by stan tyszka <soculese@bellatlantic.net>
4) Re: Rant about Prog
by "Dominic H. Kallas" <dkallas@eecs.tufts.edu>
5) Re: Punk, Prog, & somewhere in between....
by "Dominic H. Kallas" <dkallas@eecs.tufts.edu>
6) QR
by "Dan Costello" <Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
7) Re: I guess I know what I'm doing this summer...
by Michael & Pamela Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
8) Re: Styx
by "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
9) RE: I guess I know what I'm doing this summer...
by "Niall Connaughton" <ytsejam@bigpond.net.au>
10) Re: Sound good??
by "Karyn Hamilton" <littlewenda@hotmail.com>
11) Re: Rant about Prog
by "Karyn Hamilton" <littlewenda@hotmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:44:47 -0500
From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Sound good?? and Re: Flamewar history
Message-ID: <00b501c2f677$17a314e0$9b00a8c0@SHETZ>
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Okay, but the mouth stays open. :D
----- Original Message -----
From: Antony Gelberg
To: Multiple recipients of list
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Sound good?? and Re: Flamewar history
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Shetzer" <echo26@videotron.ca>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: Sound good?? and Re: Flamewar history
>
> --Boundary_(ID_ATSjPCF71vkB9TR2iuVE3A)
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>
> That a special request?
> I'm up for it :P
Put your tongue away Mike!
T
--Boundary_(ID_QhX+N5aq8J7+JJh1GR+6mw)
---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 01:02:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Billy920@webtv.net
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: felling proggy
Message-ID: <8218-3E86887B-2126@storefull-2112.public.lawson.webtv.net>
Hey Jammers,
Newly revived from cryogenic sleep ...
Just to throw my thoughts into the ring...
Is Steve Vai considered Prog???
Does he not embody emotion with his writing/playing... listen to songs
such as "Hand on Heart " from fire garden or "For the Love of GOD" from
Passion and Warfare,.... Vai and others such as Satriani are to me very
emotional, very few musicians/bands can bring tears to my eyes without
passionate lyrics like those dudes. I can also name several other prog
bands that are the same with lyrics. I cannot sing "Through her Eyes"
without tearing up and the aforementioned ( on another subject ) Spock's
Beard's Snow is an excellent example of emotional progressive music. On
the other hand I may have missed something (I have been in lurk mode for
some time ) but punk music simply makes me want to kick the living hell
out of something which is also an emotional response. Country music
makes me want to drink bear and shoot guns ( btw I don't even own a gun
)Techno makes me want to fuck, classical makes me want to read a book or
write poetry,... etc.. I guess what I'm trying to say is that people who
like a particular genre of music tend to be passionate or emotional
about it ( with a possible exception of pop music which in my opinion is
only good for robots and sheep and people easily influenced by info
mercials ) so therefore the musicians who make said music of a genre
can either do it for "the money" or "the passion" and those of us who
buy and support those musicians can either be passionate about what we
listen to or just listen to kill time. Regardless music is in itself the
vocalization of the thoughts, ideas and again ( my last use of the
word ) passion of the people creating it. but then again what do I know
I went to public schools, assume that I most definitely could be
wrong.
"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens"
Jimi Hendrix
yawn ... with that in mind....back to bed, wake me when something
interesting happens.
PEACE Billy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 01:17:41 -0500
From: stan tyszka <soculese@bellatlantic.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: my take on the 'ryche
Message-ID: <4FEBADB3-6277-11D7-BD59-000393C6BDE2@bellatlantic.net>
I am more in line to think that Promised Land is the Best with Empire a
close second. Promised Land just really says it all for 'Ryche.
Melodic music and such a good example of the Geoff Tate Dynamic. He
stands out well on that disc. Not to mention that Scott Rockenfeld
plays his ass of on those songs.
On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 11:27 PM, ytsejam@torchsong.com wrote:
>
> well, i would say i'm a huge QR fan, & own their whole catalog.
> however,
> aside of being fun once in a while to listen too (plus they help
> complete
> the catalog), i could care less about the first 2 albums. same goes
> for
> Hear In The Now Frontier. O:M is a great album, but not very
> progressive.
> yeah, it's a concept album, but so was "Tommy". good disc, but not
> prog.
> for the 2 discs i feel that have the most experimentation, emotion, and
> progressive leanings, check out Rage For Order, as well as Promised
> Land.
> RFO is just plain classic, & PL is what would've happened if QR & Pink
> Floyd would've collaborated together on an album. my 2 favs, hands
> down.
> hope this gives you a place to at least start looking.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 03:33:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dominic H. Kallas" <dkallas@eecs.tufts.edu>
To: The ytsejam mailing list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Rant about Prog
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0303300203430.4987-100000@mezzo.eecs.tufts.edu>
Heike Boedeker wrote:
>Ah, yes, definitely true <g>. I vaguely remember that a few punk and new
>wave bands, however, had prog a/o fusion experienced musicians, but
>probably these are not the hardcore cases you had in mind...
I suppose you were referring to The Police in your remarks. I recall that
each member has some sort of jazz/fusion background, and Sting once played
in a progressive rock band. With that in mind, I am not surprised if a
few musicians in the Punk movement had prior experience with Prog and
Fusion.
>>Punk is straight-from-the-gut emotional music,
>
>Well, let's say punk(ers)s like to be described that way, whether at
>least
>a significant portion of them really are uncompromisingly authentic to
>the
>marrow may be a different issue, though.
Whether you're talking about Punk, Prog, or whatever, there are people who
are genuine, and others who are just imitating. Hell, it's interesting
that the imitators _act_ so much more serious about the ideals than the
original forefathers of the movements did.
>Heck, call me an academic egghead, but if *I* write a piece with a
>passage
>in which a 17/8 is played against a 17/4 this is definitely more
>authentic
>for *me* than when *I* ever tried (read: was forced...) to play a blues
>boring myself to coma on stage.
I do understand what you're saying. Perhaps your approach to music is
due to your musical training or in how your brain processes information
(especially when you are trying to express your thoughts) or from your
experiences and influences. The differences are borne out in the music.
I have no problem with the existence of "odd" time-signatures. Not
everyone plays or even thinks in 4/4. I just think that time signature
changes should come about naturally in the song rather than be _forced_
into it as fancy flourishes. I think you and I (and others on this list)
can recognise when particular time signatures work and when they do not.
>>grounded in reality not fantasy.
>
>Oh please... "reality" is one of the words with the highest abuse rate.
>People call "reality" whatever they like, and mere "fantasy" whatever
>they
>don't. They rarely refer to something philosophically acceptable like the
>Lacanian real vs. symbolic vs. imaginary...
What I meant by "reality" was real life, whether from personal experience
or in the observation of true events. I regard "fantasy" as fictional
happenings. Ponder philosophy regarding reality versus fantasy as you see
fit, but to me, the distinction between the two is quite clear.
>>No amount of virtuosity can substitute for the spirit that is present
>>when
>>one _relates_ to a song.
>
>The problem is that alleged spirit is something that is talked about a
>lot,
>but which you can't hear in the music.
In my not-quite-so-humble opinion, in truly great works of art, the
emotions of the artist resonate with the audience. One does not have to
be told that something is great when one experiences its greatness. In
the case of music, the "alleged" spirit in the music is recognized when
the listener hears it and has an emotional response.
>Punk is a particularly bad case as
>"the movement" largely has been a lifestyle thing.
While people may focus on the lifestyle aspects of the Punk movement,
let's not forget why the music from bands such as The Clash, The Police,
Elvis Costello and the Attractions, among others is important: they packed
a lot of power in a short time frame, whether you are talking about the
length of their songs or the years until they disbanded. Their sound and
their sentiments effectively engaged their audience, leaving indelible
impressions that can be seen to this day.
Thanks for reading!
Electronically,
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 04:07:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dominic H. Kallas" <dkallas@eecs.tufts.edu>
To: The ytsejam mailing list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Punk, Prog, & somewhere in between....
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0303300336480.4987-100000@mezzo.eecs.tufts.edu>
Eric George wrote:
> it's interesting what's been said about punk having all this
>emotion, but prog having none. we've mentioned countless times how
>someones tastes (i.e.- what "pops their turtle" musically) are unique to
>each person. different music reaches different people. we all agree on
>this. tell me dom, why the fuck doesn't that apply to the musicians that
>write the stuff too?? to say that less emotion went into something,
>simply because it technically is light-years beyond 3 & 4 chord, 3 minute
>long punk songs is a statement of pure biased ignorance. so maybe it
>doesn't pop your turtle?? doesn't mean any less emotion was put into the
>music though, just because the guys that wrote it know more than just how
>to spell "music theory".
First, about popping my turtle, I should point out that:
1. I have never punched a turtle.
2. I have never shot a turtle, either.
3. I do not even have a turtle (i.e. the animal with the shell.)
Seriously, there is Prog music that I like, and Prog music that I don't
like. I just think there is more to quality music than the use of theory,
and those who pay far more attention to structure than to spirit miss the
point. That is _not_ to say that highly technical pieces of work can not
be emotional (did I mention that 'Scenes from a Memory' is one of my
favorite albums EVER?).
Thanks for reading.
Electronically,
Dom
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:27:22 -0500
From: "Dan Costello" <Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: QR
Message-ID: <BOEAJJBDNFPALMNMJONIIEKPCCAA.Iluvatar@twcny.rr.com>
>The band members section on the official FW website (www.fateswarning.info)
>has the greatest selection of rock mullets and perms I have ever seen in
one
>band. Ray is the only cool one, but he ruins the photo with his
>faux-mystical pose.
>
>As for QR, I haven't heard any of their stuff. A mate of mine borrowed OM
>from someone at his work, because the guy liked prog and my mate knew I
>liked prog. But when I listened to it, it seemed just like 80's metal with
>below-average sound, and I turned it off very quickly. What's the fuss
>about? Any (preferably non-hardcore) QR fans want to give me a pointer or
>two?
oh boy. this could cause a stir.
*dan runs for the bunker*
-Dan.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:23:14 -0600
From: Michael & Pamela Nazer <mnazer@pressenter.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: I guess I know what I'm doing this summer...
Message-ID: <BAAC59F2.3FB3%mnazer@pressenter.com>
on 3/29/03 7:16 PM, Antony Gelberg at ag@antgel.co.uk wrote:
> As for QR, I haven't heard any of their stuff. A mate of mine borrowed OM
> from someone at his work, because the guy liked prog and my mate knew I
> liked prog. But when I listened to it, it seemed just like 80's metal with
> below-average sound, and I turned it off very quickly. What's the fuss
> about? Any (preferably non-hardcore) QR fans want to give me a pointer or
> two?
>
I like to listen to them every once in a while and I am not a hard-core QR
fan so here are my 2 cents. I have...Empire, Operation Mindcrime, Hear in
the now frontier, and their debut, Queensryche. My favoirtes are Empire and
Operation Mind crime. My favorite tracks on Empire are
The Thin Line and Empire.
Pam
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:19:00 -0500
From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Styx
Message-ID: <F29VatC6ZUbPHiNKyKJ00018100@hotmail.com>
Here, here. I agree. The new Styx is a great album, if you like Styx of
course! I think many songs have a classic song without sounding dated. The
vocals and harmonies are amazing. I think the song "These Are The Times"
with JY on lead vocal is my favorite track. The song is so classic Styx
sounding that it could be on "Equinox".
Rob
>From: James <imroadie@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
>Subject: Re: Styx/Where are they now?
>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:45:13 -0800 (PST)
>
>Yes, I have heard it. Actually, (puts flame-proof suit
>on) ut's pretty damn good. Some cheesy moments, but
>overall, thier best in years, despite the absence of
>DDY. I would recommend the song "Waiting For Our Time"
>as the first song you listen to. Classic Styx style
>with a heavy Damn Yankees edge to it..
>
>Later,
>James aka Roadie
>
>
>-Anybody heard thier new one "Cyclorama"? Is it out
>yet?
>
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
>http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:35:53 +1000
From: "Niall Connaughton" <ytsejam@bigpond.net.au>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: I guess I know what I'm doing this summer...
Message-ID: <OPEJJAPFDGDMCLAHLLIMGEGNCOAA.ytsejam@bigpond.net.au>
Errg, Hear in the Now Frontier I place among the biggest wastes of $30...
along with Platypus. O:M is good when I'm in the mood for it...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of
> Michael & Pamela Nazer
> Sent: Monday, 31 March 2003 12:33 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Re: I guess I know what I'm doing this summer...
>
>
> I like to listen to them every once in a while and I am not a hard-core QR
> fan so here are my 2 cents. I have...Empire, Operation Mindcrime, Hear in
> the now frontier, and their debut, Queensryche. My favoirtes are
> Empire and
> Operation Mind crime. My favorite tracks on Empire are
> The Thin Line and Empire.
>
> Pam
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:44:19 +1000
From: "Karyn Hamilton" <littlewenda@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Sound good??
Message-ID: <BAY2-F1259mzRjo2EKs0000ff46@hotmail.com>
Aye...you guys can bitch about there not being any girls out there who like
DT, but there aren't all that many prog guys[1] around either you know ;-)
I'd love for some bloke to take me home and put on SFaM. In fact, I have a
preposition; if one of you can persuade DT to come to Australia for a tour,
it's a guaranteed date. ;-P
-- Karyn
[1] Single ones, leastaways.
>Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 00:50:23 -0500
>From: Coldfire <coldie@bellatlantic.net>
>To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
>Subject: Re: Sound good?? and Re: Flamewar history
>Message-ID: <3E85341F.51D4E735@bellatlantic.net>
>
>awww I'm really feeling the love..if only thru my DSL line ;)
>
>ya know..I wish I could find a guy that I could do that introduction to
>music test with.......oh well
>
>
>Coldie
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:01:39 +1000
From: "Karyn Hamilton" <littlewenda@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Rant about Prog
Message-ID: <BAY2-F130YYA4MO22ZH00087a8c@hotmail.com>
>Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 03:50:08 -0500 (EST)
>From: "Dominic H. Kallas" <dkallas@eecs.tufts.edu>
>To: The ytsejam mailing list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
>Subject: Re: Rant about Prog
>Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0303290252001.12977-100000@mezzo.eecs.tufts.edu>
>
>I do not dislike all Prog, but I can see why people cannot and will not
>get it. It appears to me that prog is meant for the head, while other
>music goes for the heart and the loins.
Dude are you kidding? Prog not go for the heart? I think you're mistaking
their intent. Just because prog songs tend not to be limited to lyrics like
'I love you so much, I hunger for your touch' or 'I hope you love me too,
without you I feel blue' and 4/4 with three chords, doesn't mean they aren't
there to stir emotion *as well as* provoking thought. One of the things I
love about prog is the way that it takes more than one listen to understand
the story behind each song, and it takes more than one listen to unravel all
the vagaries behind the music itself. It never gets boring. There are
songs we all listen to within this genre which awaken all kinds of emotions,
so far beyond the greater realm of crud out there which has uninspiring
music and reams of immature adolescent poetry.
Coming as I do from a classical music background, I'm used to playing and
listening to more complex and variable music. To me, prog is an adaption of
the complexity normally reserved for orchestral compositions, with the
cerebrality and feeling normally found in classical verse, coupled with the
energy, rhythms and instruments of modern rock. It's more *interesting*
than anything else.
Of course, there's shitty prog wannabes around who don't manage the high
level we expect from DT et al. Not all prog is great. But the good prog is
the best thing I've ever heard, period. I've thought that ever since I was
a little girl and I didn't even know it was called prog, listening to my
dad's old-school seventies progrock. Being introduced to new-school prog
was merely an expansion on my natural tastes.
-- Karyn
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 6506
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