YTSEJAM Digest 6715
Today's Topics:
1) RE: more snippage...
by "Ilia" <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
2) Re: Favorite DT albums
by "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
3) snare sound on st. anger
by Sebastian Keil <keil.s@web.de>
4) RE: Bad 80's hair metal
by "Alexis Ramos" <Aramos@vivienda.gobierno.pr>
5) Re: snare sound on st. anger
by "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
6) Re: more snippage...
by Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
7) Re: more snippage...
by WB Henderson <LycanthropicEye@comcast.net>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 6714
by "Simon Dodd" <simon@copperstream.co.uk>
9) Re: snare sound on st. anger
by Dave Peterson <razortag@yahoo.com>
10) Re: Favorite DT albums
by HippyDave@aol.com
11) Re: more snippage...
by Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
12)
by "Alexandro Talamini" <atalamini@hotmail.com>
13) Jordan
by "Alexandro Talamini" <atalamini@hotmail.com>
14) UK
by WB Henderson <LycanthropicEye@comcast.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:41:39 -0500
From: "Ilia" <painlessscream@yahoo.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: more snippage...
Message-ID: <LJEJLFCHDEEHAGCHOFPHOEPLCAAA.painlessscream@yahoo.com>
>Wow it was a joke. I'd ask Santa for a sense of humor if I were you.
Wow... he really is an ass ;)
>Anyone who feels like being blown away by some of the most nonsensical
>complex instrumental prog metal EVER, check out their third release
Moonbabies
It makes sense, it's just damn near impossible to count. Derek made his
intention very clear: create the sickest instrumental band in the world. He
pretty much got what he asked for. I wish a lot of it was heavier, but I do
enjoy listening to it, very UK influenced. Speaking of PX, anyone know what
that song is called that's in C minor, goes between C Eb F G chords with
different variations of time in between each, with a snare hit on each chord
and constant hi-hat underneath? They did it on the Moonbabies tour, and
Virgil did it at his PASIC clinic, but I can't find it on any of their
albums.
>somehow you don't think UAGM and the Voices >solo aren't insanely fast too
;)
The main difference is, solos like ToT the song, UaGM (especially), and
Voices are meticulously composed. Solos on TOT the album, and quite a few
on 6DoiT, are improvised in a certain idiom. As someone aptly noted,
Petrucci doesn't make habit of wasting notes - it's not "mindless"
shredding.
>The problem I have with that song (which is my favorite on the disc and I
>guess coming from me isn't a huge ringing endorsement) is the spot at
around
>8 minutes that sounds exactly like the end of "Home".
I'll note that a lot of Home sounds exactly like Metropolis Pt. I - it's all
intentional. Speaking of like-sounding parts, does anyone think that one of
the main riffs for Honor Thy Father sound like the main riff in Crimson
Sunrise? I'm surprised no one has mentioned that yet.
>Not saying the songs are bad 80's hair metal.
>But they _sound like_ bad 80's hair metal.
Well, it _was_ produced in the 80s and they _were_ only about 20-21 back
then (except Charlie). Plus, if you watch some early Majesty videos, they
were all about the hair metal - not so much the sound, but certainly the
look. And, as has been mentioned just recently, Kevin is big on
"soundscapes"... so the ambience had a lot of 80s soundscapes. The only
tracks I skip on that CD are Status Seeker and OaMoT, however - the rest of
the songs sound great to me. Of course, bad 80s hair metal used to be one
of my favorite things to listen to, so I'm biased.
Ok, ok, I'll shut up now.... sheesh :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 02:09:33 -0500
From: "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Favorite DT albums
Message-ID: <00bf01c3affe$6a8ec000$0200a8c0@Two>
This is very hard...
1. SFAM
2. I&W
2. Awake
4. ACoS
5. 6DoIT
6. ToT
7. FII
8. WDADU
This addresses ACoS the song, not the album, I could never really dig the
live parts...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Hayden" <bhayden@umn.edu>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Favorite DT albums
> For what it's worth, my ranking is more or less identical to Brian's. The
> top three spots are variable based on mood, but yeah...
>
> > Another album ranking:
> > 1. Awake
> > 2. I&W
> > 3. ACoS
> > 4. WDADU
> > 5. FII
> > 6. SFAM
> > 7. 6DOIT
> >
> > Brian
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:56:34 +0100
From: Sebastian Keil <keil.s@web.de>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: snare sound on st. anger
Message-ID: <BBE391D2.729%keil.s@web.de>
I just read an interview where Lars said the sound was an accident. For one
demo recording seesion he forget the carpet under the snare. They listened
to it, thought it was cool and left it at that.
sab
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:20:51 -0400
From: "Alexis Ramos" <Aramos@vivienda.gobierno.pr>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: Bad 80's hair metal
Message-ID: <757DAAB5CD7E934CBF86345BF0CD5DF755AB57@mailserver.vivienda.local>
> > Oh, so you are saying songs like The Killing Hand,
> TOWHTSTS, YtseJam, A Fortune In Lie is bad 80's hair
> > metal?? I think yer on some bad 80's CRACK.
>
> Not saying the songs are bad 80's hair metal. But they
> _sound like_ bad
> 80's hair metal. What about Light Fuse And Get Away,
> Afterlife, Only A
> Matter Of Time, and my favourite of all, Status Seeker?
>
> If DT hadn't gone on to greater things, this album would be right up
> there with "Shark Sandwich".
>
> T
>
> PS The Killing Hand and A Fortune In Lies are good - I still can't
> listen to them as it's a joke to put a DT album in the player for two
> songs.
Oh please!!!!! How can you say you don't like OAMOT, LFAGA and Afterlife? OAMOT is one of my favorite DT songs ever, and one of the most inspiring songs I've ever heard. The only song on that album which I think is sub-par is Status Seeker. And Charlie's wimpy scream in The Killing Hand kills the studio version for me, although the live versions with James are amazing. As for the ranking of DT's albums, I don't think I can rank them right now. I like them all a lot, including FII (everybody who doesn't like this album should give it another chance), and my preferences vary with time. As for TOT, I'm still enjoying it quite a bit, although I do see some limitations in it that I'm pretty sure will limit its potential to become a classic. But it's still a very good album, although it pales in comparison when you compare it to another recent heavy prog album, Symphony X's The Odyssey. I've been listening to that album a lot lately, and I think it has the perfect combina!
tion of heaviness and prog, along with incredible songwriting and musicianship. A masterpiece.
Alexis
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:55:34 -0500
From: "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: snare sound on st. anger
Message-ID: <012001c3b037$22fe8020$0200a8c0@Two>
> I just read an interview where Lars said the sound was an accident. For
one
> demo recording seesion he forget the carpet under the snare. They listened
> to it, thought it was cool and left it at that.
Generally I though SHIT was warm... not cool...
-Dave Schott (AdmiralDave)
admdave@qis.net
http://www.bangarangband.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:31:56 -0500
From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: more snippage...
Message-ID: <001d01c3b03c$37686260$9b00a8c0@mizz>
--Boundary_(ID_DGf6NhrvwDOtz16lhGeQCw)
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>It makes sense, it's just damn near impossible to count. Derek made his
>intention very clear: create the sickest instrumental band in the world. He
>pretty much got what he asked for. I wish a lot of it was heavier, but I do
>enjoy listening to it, very UK influenced. Speaking of PX, anyone know what
>that song is called that's in C minor, goes between C Eb F G chords with
>different variations of time in between each, with a snare hit on each chord
>and constant hi-hat underneath? They did it on the Moonbabies tour, and
>Virgil did it at his PASIC clinic, but I can't find it on any of their
>albums.
I never tried to figure out PX songs ;)
Heavier? Come on, some of this shit is pretty heavy. Universe is extremely heavy, but I find lacks the composition value of Moonbabies. Self titled Planet X is less heavy Moonbabies but is more melodic and less weirdly rhythmic and melodically complex.
UK influenced? Please tell me which bands UK style remind you of Planet X, cuz I'm interested to find ANYONE that can do stuff similar to them!!!!
--Boundary_(ID_DGf6NhrvwDOtz16lhGeQCw)
---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:42:13 -0500
From: WB Henderson <LycanthropicEye@comcast.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: more snippage...
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20031121104027.00afe160@mail.comcast.net>
Mike Shetzer wrote:
>Please tell me which bands UK style remind you of Planet X, cuz I'm
>interested to find ANYONE that can do stuff similar to them!!!!
I think he meant the band UK. And they are similar at times. (Although I
prefer UK.)
Brian
=============================================
WB Henderson [LycanthropicEye@comcast.net]
=============================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 15:43:15 -0000
From: "Simon Dodd" <simon@copperstream.co.uk>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 6714
Message-ID: <000601c3b046$2dc32970$06a9a8c0@network.griffin.net.uk>
> From: Antony Gelberg <antony@antgel.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Favorite DT albums
>
> On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 02:35:38PM -0800, Simon Dodd wrote:
> > Mine would run:
> >
> > 1) I&W
> > =2) FII
> > =2) Awake
> > 3) ACoS
> > 4) 6 Degrees
> > 5) WD&DU
> > 6) Scenes
> >
> > TOT will be somewhere below 6 Degrees.
> >
> > ~sjd
>
> That's two people who put WDADU above ACOS and SFAM respectively. I
> know it's subjective and all, but WDADU just sounds like an appaling
> 80's hair metal record with technical playing.
Well, that's probably at least partially true. It's reheated, Rush-esque
techno hair metal. It's not great, and although there are some gerat somgs
on there (Afterlife, OAMOT, Ytsejam, TKH, AFIL), only two (OAMOT and
Ytsejam) have really survived the test of time, and sound credible being
played these days. The relative positions of WD&DU and SFaM has less to do
with the merits of the former, and more to do with the demerits of the
latter. My immediate disappointment with Scenes when I heard it in 1999,
having rushed out to the stores expecting so much after FII and the Liquid
Tension records, and all the talking of a classic DT album, has matured into
a fairly persistant distaste for that album. In all, the best I can say
about it without qualification is that Finally Free and One Last Time are
both lovely pieces. Every other compliment requires a qualifier - the intro
to Home is great, but is a shameless rip from Tool; TSCO is great in a "not
so much copied as photocopied from The Wall" kind of way. I really think
Scenes is their worst record by a huge margin.
---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:03:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Dave Peterson <razortag@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: snare sound on st. anger
Message-ID: <20031121190358.93523.qmail@web10705.mail.yahoo.com>
I work at a recording studio and lemme tell ya. Rarely do people put carpets
under snares. That snare sound has nothing to do with whether or not a carpet
was there and everthing to do with a drummer who can't tune a snare and an
engineer that tried to be adventurous and turn it way up in the mix. While I
admire adventurism, this was a case of them hearing a shitty sound and thinking
it's not.
"Your drumming sounds odd (shitty), Lars"
"It's not odd (shitty), it's cool"
That's what all the shitty drummers say, anyway. ;)
- Dave
--- Dave Schott <admdave@qis.net> wrote:
> > I just read an interview where Lars said the sound was an accident. For
> one
> > demo recording seesion he forget the carpet under the snare. They listened
> > to it, thought it was cool and left it at that.
>
> Generally I though SHIT was warm... not cool...
>
> -Dave Schott (AdmiralDave)
> admdave@qis.net
> http://www.bangarangband.com
>
>
>
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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:40:09 EST
From: HippyDave@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Favorite DT albums
Message-ID: <181.238c915d.2cefc419@aol.com>
On 20/11/2003 at 08:42:01 +0100, <sgervois@atmel.fr> wrote :
> OK I know it's almost impossible to put some DT albums in
> front of others but give it a try [...] I'm just interested in seeing
> your order of favorite albums (Old and new ytsejammers euuhhh
> fogies).
Heh... :-) Well, I kinda qualify under both categories : I've been on
and off this list an awful lot since 1997, but until now I've never felt
moved to post - by the time I got around to it, someone else had
always said what I wanted to anyhow! Anyway, so here's the
thoughts of a veteran newbie, or newbie veteran, or whatever... ;-)
> I don't think we should include TOT yet until at least 6 months,
> otherwise I know I can't have the retrospect.
That's fair comment if you ask me... I know I'm really enjoying ToT
at the moment, but who knows how I'll feel about it a year from now?
Albums either fade, or improve, slowly with age - at least, to these
ears they tend to...
Anyway, if I was forced to rate the studio discs against each other,
you'd get (in descending order) :
[1] Scenes From A Memory
Still my favourite... I'm still amazed that some folks dislike it so
intensely. Sure, I can believe that it's not everyone's favourite,
but likewise I find it hard to credit that for some folks, it's DT at
their worst. Still, each to their own, etc... ;-)
[2] Awake
My first DT album, and still a firm favourite.
[3] Six Degrees...
Based almost entirely on Disc 1, which is fabulous from start to
finish. Disc 2 I really have to be in the mood for, and even now
"Overture" makes me cringe!
[4] Images And Words
Solid stuff - not much else I can add to what everyone else has
said about this one over the years!
[5] Falling Into Infinity
Flawed, but still excellent. "Trial Of Tears" is remembered so
fondly for a reason! "New Millennium", "Peruvian Skies", "Lines
In The Sand" and "You Not Me" are all firm favourites, too.
[6] A Change Of Seasons
The title suite is awesome, but I can hardly bear to hear this
studio version now, after hearing the live version on "Live Scenes..."
which just *slays* this avergaely-produced studio version. The
live stuff is solid, but I can take or leave it - I'm not fond of
covers on the whole, even though their take on "Perfect
Strangers" is wonderful... :-)
[7] When Dream And Day Unite
Great material, on the whole (yes, even "Afterlife", which is bloody
good fun), spoilt by piss-poor production. Hopefully one day the
band will get their wish and be able to remix/re-record the album
into a form they're happy with... :-)
> So, from my point of view, the years have not tired them...
Same here : there's not many bands I could say have been as
consistently entertaining throughout their career. And nothing's
changed, based on ToT. It seems to me that every album they've
ever released is someone's favourite and someone's least favourite,
which just goes to show... ;-)
Back to lurkerdom, then...
Peace,
HippyDave
NP: "Seasons End" (Marillion)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:43:02 -0500
From: Mike Shetzer <echo26@videotron.ca>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: more snippage...
Message-ID: <001b01c3b067$ad08a1d0$9b00a8c0@mizz>
--Boundary_(ID_OwFMW1d+YZB0sKcmKF+J8Q)
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Oh :)
Can't say I've ever heard of them, what's their story?
----- Original Message -----
From: WB Henderson
To: Multiple recipients of list
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: more snippage...
Mike Shetzer wrote:
>Please tell me which bands UK style remind you of Planet X, cuz I'm
>interested to find ANYONE that can do stuff similar to them!!!!
I think he meant the band UK. And they are similar at times. (Although I
prefer UK.)
Brian
============================================
WB Henderson [LycanthropicEye@comcast.net]
============================================
--Boundary_(ID_OwFMW1d+YZB0sKcmKF+J8Q)
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:44:02 -0200
From: "Alexandro Talamini" <atalamini@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Message-ID: <Law12-F125y6kLoOdHa000038c6@hotmail.com>
Well, you have mine too. =) Oh, I would include "Solitary Shell" along with
Misunderstood.
I haven't heard ToT yet because it's not yet released here in Brazil, but
reading the digests lately makes me wonder why the band recruted Jordan. As
far as I know because of their great work and chemistry in the LTE projects,
where he is wonderful playing/composing that kind of music. I think the same
applies to him in SFaM.
To me, the "heavier" direction taken on 6DoIT and on ToT (apparently) places
him in a support role wasting his real talent. I wouldn't be surprised if in
a near future he leaves the band as Kevin did in the past.
Alex
> >Absolutely... personally, I would rather they just
> >released Blind Faith as a single with Misunderstood
>as a >B side than the 6DOIT album ;P I'm sure
> >that'll make me popular on the list :P
>
>well, you have my vote :)
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger: converse com os seus amigos online.
http://messenger.msn.com.br
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:44:10 -0200
From: "Alexandro Talamini" <atalamini@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Jordan
Message-ID: <Law12-F105nJNeO925B0000379f@hotmail.com>
Well, you have mine too. =) Oh, I would include "Solitary Shell" along with
Misunderstood.
I haven't heard ToT yet because it's not yet released here in Brazil, but
reading the digests lately makes me wonder why the band recruted Jordan. As
far as I know because of their great work and chemistry in the LTE projects,
where he is wonderful playing/composing that kind of music. I think the same
applies to him in SFaM.
To me, the "heavier" direction taken on 6DoIT and on ToT (apparently) places
him in a support role wasting his real talent. I wouldn't be surprised if in
a near future he leaves the band as Kevin did in the past.
Alex
> >Absolutely... personally, I would rather they just
> >released Blind Faith as a single with Misunderstood
>as a >B side than the 6DOIT album ;P I'm sure
> >that'll make me popular on the list :P
>
>well, you have my vote :)
>
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger: converse com os seus amigos online.
http://messenger.msn.com.br
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:35:05 -0500
From: WB Henderson <LycanthropicEye@comcast.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: UK
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20031121172353.045e2758@mail.comcast.net>
Mike Shetzer wrote:
>Can't say I've ever heard of them, what's their story?
UK's one of the best prog supergroups of all time. The line-up...
Allan Holdsworth - guitar (only on first album)
Eddie Jobson - keys/violin
John Wetton - bass/vox
Bill Bruford - drums
Terry Bozzio - drums (replaced Bruford after first album)
If you're a Planet-X and/or King Crimson fan, you're almost guaranteed to
like 'em. They've only got a few albums - try the first, self-titled, disc
for starters.
Brian
[NP...Ephel Duath - The Painter's Palette (note: my thanks to whoever it
was that recommended this band a few months back)]
=============================================
WB Henderson [LycanthropicEye@comcast.net]
=============================================
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 6715
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