YTSEJAM Digest 6788
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Editing
by Steve Chew <schew@interzone.com>
2) Re: Editing
by "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:27:22 -0500
From: Steve Chew <schew@interzone.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Editing
Message-ID: <20040206212722.GB29897@interzone.com>
>
>> percentage angle much like the original post. He mentioned (I think) that
>> he liked a higher percentage of 6DOIT than ToT. I agree but I think 6DOIT
>> has a better change if only because it is a double album. I do think it
>> could have been a single but at what cost? I'd hate to have them
>sacrifice
>> material I liked for the material on there that I don't. ToT is a
>different
>
>That is an EXCELLENT point, and I feel EXACTLY the same. I often hear
>people complain that certain CD's, especially double CD sets, are "too long"
>or the band "should have done a better job of editing." I've heard this
>with DT, and I've heard it even more with bands such as The Flower Kings,
>another of my favorites.
>
>I too would rather have ALL the music that the band is willing to give me
>and I'll make the decision what I do and don't like. If it bugs me enough,
>I'll burn one CD of just the songs I like. It's never gotten to that for me
>though.
>
I think that what people mean by "editing" is not simply that
pieces of a song would be cut out, but rather that the song is "tightened"
to better highlight the themes, melodies, and so on. This kind of
editing can make the song *better* than it was previously, not just
shorter. The people who favor this would rather have 5 minutes of
"perfection" rather than 8 minutes of "really good." Of course, if you
can have 8 minutes of perfection, then that's even better!
I would guess that this kind of tightening is best done when
the song is first written, but of course some editing must be done
after the song is produced and you can hear the final product. Personally,
I think that DT should spend more time in the writing phase to work on
tightening their themes, melodies and the songs as a whole. Did they
used to spend more time, back in the I&W/Awake days?
I once saw a movie where a couple of the scenes were horribly
trite and made me leave the theater wondering what the director and
writing were thinking. I later saw those same scenes after they had
been edited (tightened) and I could hardly believe how much difference
it made. It was almost like watching a different movie. The scenes
*worked* when the didn't in the unedited version. The funny thing was
that they hadn't even changed any of the dialogue or acting, but
rather presented it in a different way (and cutting out some bad parts)
which made all the difference.
Good editing is one of the unsung heroes of most art forms. DT
needs to remember that.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:06:49 -0500
From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Editing
Message-ID: <Law15-F89SktLxHbHuc00007b1d@hotmail.com>
Exactly, Steve. A good example for me (though to a lesser degree) is
"Solitary Shell". The single edit, to me, is perfect. I like how it was
edited to add to certain points and then moving one section around...it
works. Then I heard the album version which doesn't work as well. The end
of that song on the album is out of place (TDS is the same). So whoever did
the edit created a better song in the process.
As far as the writing goes, we know they had nearly 3 years to write and
fine tune I&W which is one reason that album stands up to this day. Awake
was not the same but I know they did write some while on tour. It was a
different band then with Kevin. Kevin definitely brought in ideas and
melodies. I still don't have a clear idea what Jordan is bringing in
(besides the cartoon bits). That's not to say he isn't, because I am sure
he must be adding ideas. I just don't hear it as distinctly.
Rob
>From: Steve Chew <schew@interzone.com>
>Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
>Subject: Re: Editing
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:46:34 -0800 (PST)
>
> >
> >> percentage angle much like the original post. He mentioned (I think)
>that
> >> he liked a higher percentage of 6DOIT than ToT. I agree but I think
>6DOIT
> >> has a better change if only because it is a double album. I do think
>it
> >> could have been a single but at what cost? I'd hate to have them
> >sacrifice
> >> material I liked for the material on there that I don't. ToT is a
> >different
> >
> >That is an EXCELLENT point, and I feel EXACTLY the same. I often hear
> >people complain that certain CD's, especially double CD sets, are "too
>long"
> >or the band "should have done a better job of editing." I've heard this
> >with DT, and I've heard it even more with bands such as The Flower Kings,
> >another of my favorites.
> >
> >I too would rather have ALL the music that the band is willing to give me
> >and I'll make the decision what I do and don't like. If it bugs me
>enough,
> >I'll burn one CD of just the songs I like. It's never gotten to that for
>me
> >though.
> >
>
> I think that what people mean by "editing" is not simply that
>pieces of a song would be cut out, but rather that the song is "tightened"
>to better highlight the themes, melodies, and so on. This kind of
>editing can make the song *better* than it was previously, not just
>shorter. The people who favor this would rather have 5 minutes of
>"perfection" rather than 8 minutes of "really good." Of course, if you
>can have 8 minutes of perfection, then that's even better!
> I would guess that this kind of tightening is best done when
>the song is first written, but of course some editing must be done
>after the song is produced and you can hear the final product. Personally,
>I think that DT should spend more time in the writing phase to work on
>tightening their themes, melodies and the songs as a whole. Did they
>used to spend more time, back in the I&W/Awake days?
>
> I once saw a movie where a couple of the scenes were horribly
>trite and made me leave the theater wondering what the director and
>writing were thinking. I later saw those same scenes after they had
>been edited (tightened) and I could hardly believe how much difference
>it made. It was almost like watching a different movie. The scenes
>*worked* when the didn't in the unedited version. The funny thing was
>that they hadn't even changed any of the dialogue or acting, but
>rather presented it in a different way (and cutting out some bad parts)
>which made all the difference.
>
> Good editing is one of the unsung heroes of most art forms. DT
>needs to remember that.
>
> Steve
>
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------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 6788
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