YTSEJAM Digest 6776
Today's Topics:
1) Will wonders never cease
by cheryl <cherylcat@earthlink.net>
2) RE: ENOUGH!!!!
by "Dan Costello" <iluvatar@rochester.rr.com>
3) Re: ENOUGH!!!!
by Snarncymbl@aol.com
4) RE: ENOUGH!!!!
by "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
5) Re: ENOUGH!!!!
by "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
6) Re: Ticket Prices
by "Neil Evans" <progmtl@verizon.net>
7) Re: Ticket Prices
by "Krusty" <ytsekrusty@yahoo.com.br>
8) RE: ENOUGH!!!!
by "Niall Connaughton" <ytsejam@bigpond.net.au>
9) meet'n'greets
by "Paul W. Cashman" <pellaz@comcast.net>
10) Re: Ticket Prices
by Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
11) Re: Ticket Prices
by "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
12) powerprog
by "Trevor Hoit" <trevorhoit@comcast.net>
13) Re: ENOUGH of ENOUGH!!!
by "Bill Huston" <pvcirrus5@msn.com>
14) Re: *****SPAM***** Re: ENOUGH of ENOUGH!!!
by Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu>
15) Re: ENOUGH of ENOUGH!!!
by Lisa Palma <comadivine@covad.net>
16) Re: Ticket Prices
by "Chris" <ccooney@comcast.net>
17) Re: ticket prices
by Alexis Ramos <alexis_ramos@yahoo.com>
18) My top 10 for 2003
by Alexis Ramos <alexis_ramos@yahoo.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:56:02 -0800
From: cheryl <cherylcat@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Will wonders never cease
Message-ID: <4011DEC2.5050509@earthlink.net>
The local "rock" radio station here in el-lay is actually playing
commercials for the onsale of the DT show AND giving away tickets. Now
keep in mind, el-lay rock radio sucks, and said station (that being
KLOS) doesn't even play DT anymore, unless they slip it in at the wee
hours of the morning during Jim Ladd's "free form radio" show. I don't
think I've heard DT on the radio out here since PMU was first out...now
I ask...WTF is up with that?!?!?
OK, I've made my post for the year...back to lurk mode.
cheryl
p.s. I pre-ordered my tix to the Pantages show...it'll be amusing to see
where I get seats.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 22:36:22 -0500
From: "Dan Costello" <iluvatar@rochester.rr.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: ENOUGH!!!!
Message-ID: <BOEAJJBDNFPALMNMJONICEGCCGAA.iluvatar@rochester.rr.com>
>I have had enough. I have had enough of all your whining and
>bickering. If you were a true DT fan, you would be happy they
>were coming to town.
They're not coming to town. I have to go 4-6 hours in just about any
direction to see them. They came here in Sep 2002 w/ Kings X, and of the 4
times I've seen them as a whole band, it had the best venue and the best
sound. And from what I remember, the place was packed.
Anybody got any ideas why they hardly visit the northeast?
>As far as their song writing going downhill, I happen to disagree. I think
>that the lyrics are just as powerful as ever. You just don't like it
because it
>wasn't the same thing you first heard when you became a fan.
Hey, if you're a new DT fan, great. Sorry if we discourage you, but I
personally am of the opinion that they've lost something over the last
couple years. I think it coincides with the self-production of their albums
and to a lesser extent the loss of Kevin Moore. Prior to SFAM, I do think
the lyrics were better. FII has to be taken on a song-by-song basis. I don't
think they're selling out, in fact I think it's the other way around;
they're finally able to do exactly what they want. But I think they could
use a good producer to guide them a bit. I'll listen to Awake or ACoS or
Trial of Tears all the way through 3-4 times in a row, but I've listened to
ToT twice since I got it and really don't have much desire to listen to it
again. It's not because it's different than their old stuff; it's because I
don't like it as much. I think ToT wold make a good starter album for a
nu-metal kid looking to get into DT, but that's not where I am. The straight
metal thing doesn't really do it for me. I like something with a real strong
melody. ToT isn't that.
Jeez, look at that - I'M GETTING OLD! And I'm only 22! 8-b
-Dan.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 22:47:37 EST
From: Snarncymbl@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: ENOUGH!!!!
Message-ID: <cf.3b016c0.2d4344d9@aol.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
You know what, your all absolutly right. The point I must have failed to get
across was the fact that nobody seems to say good things about DT. Its fine to
say negative things if there are nice things said too. I mean, the who wants
to read all negative post. I was just saying its nice to see people
complimenting them which hasn't been done in quite a while.
And I know I have only posted 11 times. Unlike everyone else. I sit back and
hope that something nice will be said. I used to enjoy reading what others
have said and for a long time I kept my mouth shut because I thought that I would
have nothing to chime in (and hey, I still might not,lol). I considered
myself the new guy and I know that there was no way I could keep up with everyone
(and once again, still might not be able to according to some of you, lol). But
I started talking alittle more because even though people say bad things
about them, I think that there should be some good things said as well because
they are an overall entertaining band. And just because you are being charged for
something that came free, that doesn't mean that its a whole other band. They
are still DT. They have still put out alot of great albums and concerts and
left everyone with smiles. All I was trying to say was there should be alittle
more positive comments to sort of even things out a bit. Is that too much to
expect?
But, I do appreciate this newsletter. For no other band, I haven't seen so
many people on diffrent sides of the fence on things. That's what makes DT so
great. The fans have a mind of there own. We arn't told what to like and thats
something good to be said about Dream Theaters music. Just a thought.
Art Fernandez
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---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 23:12:30 -0500
From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: RE: ENOUGH!!!!
Message-ID: <Law15-F23g07MJJQ87300047552@hotmail.com>
I'd love to add to Dan's comments but he covered it quite well. My thoughts
on ToT are well documented and while I know one person on here was hoping
I'd given up, sorry. It's funny how the true DT fans tell us the morons
that we can't critique work. This guy (Art was it? Eh, don't matter
really.) makes Joseph McCarthy look intelligent. Good points, Dan.
Rob
>From: "Dan Costello" <iluvatar@rochester.rr.com>
>Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
>To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
>Subject: RE: ENOUGH!!!!
>Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:37:08 -0800 (PST)
>
> >I have had enough. I have had enough of all your whining and
> >bickering. If you were a true DT fan, you would be happy they
> >were coming to town.
>
>They're not coming to town. I have to go 4-6 hours in just about any
>direction to see them. They came here in Sep 2002 w/ Kings X, and of the 4
>times I've seen them as a whole band, it had the best venue and the best
>sound. And from what I remember, the place was packed.
>
>Anybody got any ideas why they hardly visit the northeast?
>
> >As far as their song writing going downhill, I happen to disagree. I
>think
> >that the lyrics are just as powerful as ever. You just don't like it
>because it
> >wasn't the same thing you first heard when you became a fan.
>
>Hey, if you're a new DT fan, great. Sorry if we discourage you, but I
>personally am of the opinion that they've lost something over the last
>couple years. I think it coincides with the self-production of their albums
>and to a lesser extent the loss of Kevin Moore. Prior to SFAM, I do think
>the lyrics were better. FII has to be taken on a song-by-song basis. I
>don't
>think they're selling out, in fact I think it's the other way around;
>they're finally able to do exactly what they want. But I think they could
>use a good producer to guide them a bit. I'll listen to Awake or ACoS or
>Trial of Tears all the way through 3-4 times in a row, but I've listened to
>ToT twice since I got it and really don't have much desire to listen to it
>again. It's not because it's different than their old stuff; it's because I
>don't like it as much. I think ToT wold make a good starter album for a
>nu-metal kid looking to get into DT, but that's not where I am. The
>straight
>metal thing doesn't really do it for me. I like something with a real
>strong
>melody. ToT isn't that.
>
>
>
>Jeez, look at that - I'M GETTING OLD! And I'm only 22! 8-b
>
>-Dan.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find high-speed net deals comparison-shop your local providers here.
https://broadband.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 23:34:15 -0500
From: "Dave Schott" <admdave@qis.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: ENOUGH!!!!
Message-ID: <002601c3e233$535ed840$2000a8c0@Two>
Hear hear, plus its just funny :-D
-Dave Schott (AdmiralDave)
admdave@qis.net
http://www.bangarangband.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Coutermarsh" <andrew@acvox.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: ENOUGH!!!!
*RING*
"Hello?"
"Hey Kettle, it's Pot. You're black."
*CLICK*
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:24:11 -0500
From: "Neil Evans" <progmtl@verizon.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Ticket Prices
Message-ID: <000001c3e23a$4cef5640$0200a8c0@athlon>
Again, ignoring the vitriol from Brian Hayden and trying to get to the
point...
>They're not working for free, and never were. They're now in the
business >of soaking the suckers for a couple hundred for things they
used to do for >free...
So then your position is "you used to give us XYZ for free and you
should continue to do so... or else I will be angry with you.."
>It's the meet-and-greet that I think is the serious money-grab. Really,
not >many people care that much about being in one of those sixteen
*exactly* >front and center seats vs. one row further back or one seat
to the left. >It's the meet/greet that people are really going to pay
for.
Look, I fall into the category of people who don't care about being "one
row further back or one seat to the left." I also do not care to pay
for platinum, or in my case, even gold, seating (I have purchased
Bronze). Nevertheless, I'm not whining that DT SHOULD (important word)
not be offering such a deal. I'm sure there are people out there,
unlike me, who have NOT spoken to the members of DT on several
occasions, and who do NOT have a number of different signed items. I'm
sure there are people out there with more disposable income who would be
happy to spend $250 to meet the band and make this particular dream come
true. More power to them, and more power to the band that makes it all
possible.
DT can charge whatever they want for whatever product/service they want
and you and I can choose to pay it or not. You seem to accept this as
legally true, but not morally true. My point is to say it's morally
correct as well. Too often I feel that fans have a perspective that
basically amounts to "<insert favorite band> should live in near-poverty
and regularly release CDs, and regularly tour, with both CD and tour
prices set at 'reasonable' levels (reasonable as defined by ME) and
anything higher than that is a sell-out and an affront to my dignity".
This seems to match your point of view.
My point is very simply this: you can choose not to pay the price for
any product or service, and that is your individual power as a consumer.
However, your rants about whether product A should be priced at $B or
service X should be priced at $Y are essentially irrelevant. They are
priced where the band (and/or their management or other professional
affiliates) want to price them and you can buy or not buy as with
anything else. Very simple. Sure, you can complain because the
universe has not aligned itself with your feelings, but that is not very
productive.
A final note: while this [pricing] may be annoying to you, it may be a
nice offer to someone else. As a consumer, you can whine all you want
on the ytsejam but you only have one vote when it comes to the band's
experience on the tour. I'll reiterate: vote with your wallet. If no
one decides to go with Gold or Platinum seating, those options will
disappear the next time around. On the other hand, if hundreds of
people vie for those seats, then this might become a regular thing.
Sure, you and I may not like it, but to question DT's right to charge a
demanded wage for certain seats is either foolish immaturity or (more
damning) outright socialism. Period.
-Neil.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 05:16:45 -0200
From: "Krusty" <ytsekrusty@yahoo.com.br>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Ticket Prices
Message-ID: <003f01c3e24a$07ee2250$66abfea9@ALFA>
Hey, all.
The people donw here in Latin America would be pleased to have an argument
like this, if only DT would show up here more often.
It's been six years since their last show down here =(
And we certainly didn't pay to meet them in the hotel lobby =)
Now, I'm going back to the grave.
Gabriel
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:41:35 +1100
From: "Niall Connaughton" <ytsejam@bigpond.net.au>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: ENOUGH!!!!
Message-ID: <OPEJJAPFDGDMCLAHLLIMKEDJDDAA.ytsejam@bigpond.net.au>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ytsejam@torchsong.com [mailto:ytsejam@torchsong.com]On Behalf Of
> Dan Costello
> Sent: Saturday, 24 January 2004 2:38 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: RE: ENOUGH!!!!
>
> Hey, if you're a new DT fan, great. Sorry if we discourage you, but I
> personally am of the opinion that they've lost something over the last
> couple years. I think it coincides with the self-production of their
albums
> and to a lesser extent the loss of Kevin Moore.
Heh, that's a bit more than a coupla years.. KM left ~10 years ago :P You're
starting to sound like me... any day now, Metallica will return to when they
were actually good. They'll release a new album that continues on from
Justice, we can forget about that dodgy Black album and all that followed,
and all will be good. Hey, it's 16 years on, but I know they'll get back to
their roots! :P
FWIW, I think ToT is much better than 6DOIT. It seems to me that 6DOIT was
the result of MP enjoying writing epics in TA a bit too much. Unfortunately,
they didn't have Neal around to keep it on the tracks!
And now to my bomb shelter...
Niall
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 06:15:02 -0500
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <pellaz@comcast.net>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: meet'n'greets
Message-ID: <401253B6.7362@comcast.net>
Ahh yes, meet'n'greets.
Count me among those who are saddened -- not pissed off or annoyed, but
saddened -- to see DT begin charging for something that they used to do
for their fans for free. Will they be guarded to and from the tour-bus
so plebian fans won't have a chance to bother them? Will the
traditional Waiting By The Buses Fan-Gathering after the show become a
fruitless effort? Maybe so.
I can remember the "olden days" from c. 1989 thru 1994 or so (and
probably earlier), when Metallica used to deliberately schedule a time
after their backstage after-show obligations were completed when they'd
"go outside" and meet with the fans who weren't lucky enough to get
backstage passes, and who were still waiting outside. Hours after the
show was over, usually.
It was a scheduled thing; their road manager or personal assistant (Tony
Swift or Ian Jeffery, back in the days) would come up to them backstage
and say "It's time to go outside." And they went. Fans outside who
had waited hours would have their dreams come true. I saw Metallica do
this even during a light drizzle, once (Greenville, SC).
Later, this practice declined.
So did Metallica.
I imagine nowadays it would be too much effort for a band playing large
halls like DT to actually schedule a public meet'n'greet after their
show: too many logistical concerns, too many people--
--But wait. At least one touring act DID do after-show meet'n'greets,
open to anyone. While they were performing in ARENAS. Long table,
seats behind, fans worked their way down the line. Within the last
few months. And they even have a prog-metal connection. The act?
Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Their prog-metal origin? Savatage. Every
major performer and cast member was involved. And yes, it was
amazingly cool to behold.
-- +--- Paul W. Cashman, ICQ #4151223 www.paulcashman.com ----+ | NEW email: pellaz@comcast.net | | "true" website address: http://home.comcast.net/~pellaz | +---------------------------------------------------------------+---YTSEJAM-FILTER: This message was posted using the YML command
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 05:32:28 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Ticket Prices Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.50.0401240521180.26314-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Neil Evans wrote:
> DT can charge whatever they want for whatever product/service they want > and you and I can choose to pay it or not. You seem to accept this as > legally true, but not morally true. My point is to say it's morally > correct as well. Too often I feel that fans have a perspective that > basically amounts to "<insert favorite band> should live in near-poverty > and regularly release CDs, and regularly tour, with both CD and tour > prices set at 'reasonable' levels (reasonable as defined by ME) and > anything higher than that is a sell-out and an affront to my dignity". > This seems to match your point of view.
I'll say again, you're just wrong. I'm sorry. That's a total mischaracterization of my PoV. You're using a strawman. They're not living in near-poverty. They simply aren't. They're doing okay for themselves, and now they're taking something that most of them used to do for free, just because they wanted to, and charging for it.
And I'll come right out and say that every time I saw them (three times), everyone *except* Portnoy was out there just hanging out with people afterwards. He poked his head out the bus door and acted like he was doing everyone a favor, waiting to be worshipped. I know everyone loves the guy, I'm sorry, but I just can't help but see him from personal perception as just another dumb-as-rocks NYC schmuck who loves that people kiss his ass. I don't think he started out like that, but after aobut the 12th Modern Drummer award I think it went to his head and now he's decided to start soaking people.
DT took a step down when he started writing lyrics, another step down when he thought he was qualified to produce, and now....
*shrug*
> Sure, you and I may not like it, but to question DT's right to charge a > demanded wage for certain seats is either foolish immaturity or (more > damning) outright socialism. Period.
Uhhh, do you know what "socialism" is? Apparently not. "Socialism" has to do with a collectivist approach to providing social services. If you're talking about price controls (which you are), socialism is not the word you're looking for...
I'll say it again: they have the right to charge what they want. And people have the right to say "you used to do that free under the guise of being good guys who like the fans. What's changed?"
Fact is, this is the same stuff that people on this list have, for years, castigated bands like KI$$ over. Now that it's DT you're all grasping at straws to rationalize and kiss ass.
-Brian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:36:57 -0500 From: "Rob P" <ytsejam2002@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Ticket Prices Message-ID: <Law15-F126xENJjQtOu00039094@hotmail.com>
Brian is right. And what makes this even worse for me is MP's attempt to "blame" their management for the idea and then claim it's for "better lighting". Gimme a break. If you are going to soak the hardcore fans (since those are the only people willing or stupid enough to pay this charge), then at least be man enough to admit it! If it was management's idea, then why did he agree to it? Because he thinks it is okay to do it!!! And yes they most certainly have the right do soak the fans. And I have the right to call him on it. This is just a continuation of the ToT album for me. Bad choice after bad choice. It's a shame...or is that sham? MP reminds me more and more of Gene Simmons and Lars. Take that anyway you want.
Rob
>From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu> >Reply-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com >To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> >Subject: Re: Ticket Prices >Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 03:52:22 -0800 (PST) > >On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Neil Evans wrote: > > > DT can charge whatever they want for whatever product/service they want > > and you and I can choose to pay it or not. You seem to accept this as > > legally true, but not morally true. My point is to say it's morally > > correct as well. Too often I feel that fans have a perspective that > > basically amounts to "<insert favorite band> should live in near-poverty > > and regularly release CDs, and regularly tour, with both CD and tour > > prices set at 'reasonable' levels (reasonable as defined by ME) and > > anything higher than that is a sell-out and an affront to my dignity". > > This seems to match your point of view. > >I'll say again, you're just wrong. I'm sorry. That's a total >mischaracterization of my PoV. You're using a strawman. They're not living >in near-poverty. They simply aren't. They're doing okay for themselves, >and now they're taking something that most of them used to do for free, >just because they wanted to, and charging for it. > >And I'll come right out and say that every time I saw them (three times), >everyone *except* Portnoy was out there just hanging out with people >afterwards. He poked his head out the bus door and acted like he was doing >everyone a favor, waiting to be worshipped. I know everyone loves the guy, >I'm sorry, but I just can't help but see him from personal perception as >just another dumb-as-rocks NYC schmuck who loves that people kiss his ass. >I don't think he started out like that, but after aobut the 12th Modern >Drummer award I think it went to his head and now he's decided to start >soaking people. > >DT took a step down when he started writing lyrics, another step down when >he thought he was qualified to produce, and now.... > >*shrug* > > > Sure, you and I may not like it, but to question DT's right to charge a > > demanded wage for certain seats is either foolish immaturity or (more > > damning) outright socialism. Period. > >Uhhh, do you know what "socialism" is? Apparently not. "Socialism" has to >do with a collectivist approach to providing social services. If you're >talking about price controls (which you are), socialism is not the word >you're looking for... > >I'll say it again: they have the right to charge what they want. And >people have the right to say "you used to do that free under the guise of >being good guys who like the fans. What's changed?" > >Fact is, this is the same stuff that people on this list have, for years, >castigated bands like KI$$ over. Now that it's DT you're all grasping at >straws to rationalize and kiss ass. > >-Brian
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:01:19 -0800 From: "Trevor Hoit" <trevorhoit@comcast.net> To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: powerprog Message-ID: <000a01c3e2a4$120a88a0$05d01018@attbi.com>
hey anyone else around Seattle going to the powerprog fest today? www.powerprogfest.com
---YTSEJAM FILTER: Rest of message skipped because of attachment
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:06:14 -0700 From: "Bill Huston" <pvcirrus5@msn.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: ENOUGH of ENOUGH!!! Message-ID: <BAY3-DAV151Mb1s7nlT0000c157@hotmail.com>
*******Leaving Lurk Mode************
Reading what most of you are bitching about-both ways-is quite hilarious. Unfortunately, I live? in Utah. DT has come here a whopping 2 times and I've been to both of them, gratefully. There are some of you that have seen them well over 10 times. I realize that to most of you there's New York then L.A. and a vast wasteland in between. I would consider myself very fortunate to be given the opportunity to see them again AT WHATEVER PRICE was available! Why? Simply because I like them. And they don't owe me anything. Undoubtedly, someone will reply with a rant about roadtrip. Nice idea if it was possible, but reality is it's not possible, so I guess I'm not a "true fan". How about Niall down in Oz? He's still waiting to see them ONCE. I don't think he'd care what the ticket price was as long as he got the opportunity. Maybe it's my age, but all of you bitching about prices sound like little spoiled whiny brats. At least you get the opportunity to go. I envy you. If you really think DT is that bad, don't go! Even better, denounce them, and the list and get off! Sure, EVERYONE has the right to their respective opinions and I like reading about them all even if there are those that are hard to take. But they have the same weight as the agreeable ones. Neither one is a fact and only applies to the person expressing it. So go ahead and complain, that's what the list is for as well as praise. But for someone to make personal insults at someone else for expressing their opinion, either way, is showing their immaturity.
Class dismissed for recess.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:27:49 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: ENOUGH of ENOUGH!!! Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.50.0401241323100.4632-100000@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Bill Huston wrote:
> don't think he'd care what the ticket price was as long as he got the > opportunity. Maybe it's my age, but all of you bitching about prices sound > like little spoiled whiny brats. At least you get the opportunity to go.
Hi, Strawman! You're looking well-stuffed today!
Again, and I'll say it slowly... nobody... is.... bitching... about.... prices. Per se. People are upset because something that was a very cool trait of the band (the personal touch with the fans) is now being sold.
This has been said at least six times, I'm not going to say it again. Learn to read.
And yeah, we're all spoiled whiny brats--you know this, because you've met us and studied our lives *eyes rolling*. I'll tell you the same thing I told Art: If you're such a whip-smart psychic, go use it for something useful. Jackass.
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:28:27 -0800 From: Lisa Palma <comadivine@covad.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: ENOUGH of ENOUGH!!! Message-ID: <4012C75B.7060400@covad.net>
Bill Huston wrote: <snip> > Maybe it's my age, but all of you bitching about prices sound > like little spoiled whiny brats. At least you get the opportunity to go. I > envy you. If you really think DT is that bad, don't go! Even better, > denounce them, and the list and get off! Sure, EVERYONE has the right to > their respective opinions and I like reading about them all even if there > are those that are hard to take. But they have the same weight as the > agreeable ones. Neither one is a fact and only applies to the person > expressing it. So go ahead and complain, that's what the list is for as well > as praise. But for someone to make personal insults at someone else for > expressing their opinion, either way, is showing their immaturity.
Well that's an interesting statement to make, for someone who just referred to his list mates as "little spoiled whiny brats".
Now where'd that kettle run off to... ?
~L -- [ Lisa Marie Palma : lisa@palma.net ] [ DJ Jessie on YTSERADIO : www.ytseradio.com ] [ 'Coma Divine' : Thursdays 7-9pm U.S. Pacific ]
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:58:23 -0500 From: "Chris" <ccooney@comcast.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Ticket Prices Message-ID: <004c01c3e2b4$6d1e5180$60ab5444@shlb1201.mi.comcast.net>
----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Hayden <bhayden@umn.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 6:52 AM Subject: Re: Ticket Prices
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2004, Neil Evans wrote: > > > > And I'll come right out and say that every time I saw them (three times), > everyone *except* Portnoy was out there just hanging out with people > afterwards. He poked his head out the bus door and acted like he was doing > everyone a favor, waiting to be worshipped. I know everyone loves the guy, > I'm sorry, but I just can't help but see him from personal perception as > just another dumb-as-rocks NYC schmuck who loves that people kiss his ass. > I don't think he started out like that, but after aobut the 12th Modern > Drummer award I think it went to his head and now he's decided to start > soaking people.
Like someone else mentioned, it's basically the luck of the draw when it comes to waiting by the busses. I've been fortunate to go to quite a few shows (17) and Mike Portnoy came out more often than not. He signed stuff, took pictures, and was quite personable and very down to earth. If you show up a few times, he even remembers you. In fact of all the times I've waited by the bus, there has only been once instance where someone came out and he didn't. It was more often that John P and John M didn't make an appearance, though when they did they were both very nice. Sometimes Mike and Jordan could even been found wandering around outside the venues before the show, and talked to the people who had arrived early. None of us *really* know what Mike is like when all is said and done - but I really don't see him as waiting to be worshipped or thinking he's above everyone else, and though we've all done stupid things, I don't see him as being dumb either. Maybe those times you waited he was just more tired than usual, or maybe his family was with him, or maybe he just didn't feel like it.
Maybe we should just wait until the first few shows before assuming that they won't still come out and hang with the people who wait for them outside. I believe they appreciate those fans more a lot of us think. The $250 package is a guarantee that you will get to meet the band, have your picture taken, etc. For me, it doesn't make sense to buy this package - I have the opportunity to see a lot of shows, and if James doesn't come out one time, maybe he will next time. For others, it might be just what they were looking for. Perhaps because of their location, their jobs, or their families, they can only see one show per tour. Maybe that's the show that the band brings their family along and doesn't wait by the busses at all. Or maybe that's one of quite a few shows that JM doesn't come out. So they buy the package, get a great seat and get to meet all five. And since it's only 20 seats in the first 5 shows, the rest of us still have a chance at getting a good seat as well.
Chris
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:17:10 -0800 (PST) From: Alexis Ramos <alexis_ramos@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: ticket prices Message-ID: <20040125001710.91133.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com>
Well, my opinion (if anybody cares) about these new packages is that they're bullshit. First of all, as many of you have said, they're going to be charging now for something that they used to give out for free. Second, I think Mike Portnoy's excuse (which was posted here before) is crap, because I really doubt that the band had no control over the new lighting concept and additional costs. I mean, who made the decision of having a better light show in their presentations? Did management force DT to have a better light show? What would be the logic behind that? I'm not convinced that DT didn't know about these new packages beforehand, and that they didn't have a say on it. If I give them the benefit of a doubt, then my guess is that, for some reason, DT wanted a better light show, and maybe left it up to management to figure out how to pay for the additional costs. Well, I don't think their management chose the best option. I'm just glad that when I got to see DT I got to hang out with all of them after the show (except for Petrucci and Portnoy (but I had already seen him in an in-store the day before the show)). It's sad to know that other people won't have the chance to have a similar experience unless they pay for it.
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:44:25 -0800 (PST) From: Alexis Ramos <alexis_ramos@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: My top 10 for 2003 Message-ID: <20040125004425.2646.qmail@web10508.mail.yahoo.com>
Well, after giving it some thought, here's my top 10 list for 2003's releases. I'm sure about my favorite album of the year, but after that the order gets a little bit arbitrary:
1) Frameshift - Unweaving the Rainbow There's not much more I can say about this album that I haven't already said. This album is just brilliant.
2) Bela Fleck and the Flecktones - Little Worlds Another kickass album from the Flecktones. It's 3 cds long and not one filler song!!!
3) Ohm: This is Chris Poland's new band, and I think this is one of the best fusion album's I've heard in a long time!!!! This is fusion with feeling, with quite a few melodic songs that are just beautiful. This one took me by surprise; it's that good.
4) Devin Townsend Band - Accelerated Evolution Amazing album by Devin and co. It kicks ass while still remaining very melodic and emotional.
5) Star One: Live on Earth This is the only live album that made it into the top 10. Definitely one of the best live albums I've heard. Brilliant (and the DVD is amazing as well, despite not being professionally shot).
6) Supared - Supared I know not many people liked this album by the great Michael Kiske, but I happen to think it's great. A bit heavier than his previous effort, very catchy and with great singing and great songs.
7) Dream Theater - Train of Thought Another very good album by DT, although I think I like 6DOIT better. Still, it kicks ass and will continue to get considerable playing time.
8) Kamelot - Epica Another great album by Kamelot, even though it's nothing grounbreaking for them. Still, it's great and he incredible Roy Khan gives another stellar preformance on vocals.
9) John Arch - A Twist of Fate Brilliant return by Mr. Arch. The only problem with this album is that it's too short!!!!!!
10) Masterplan - S/T Amazing power metal album which sounds very fresh, not rehashed like many other power metal bands.
Honorable mentions (which I think could be mentioned in the top 10 depending on my mood):
Circle II Circle - Watching in Silence It's so good to have more Zak Stevens!!!
Marty Friedman - Music for Speeding Marty's back!!!!! Kickass album by this amazing guitarist.
Marcel Coenen - Guitar Talk Excellent guitar playing by this extremely talented musician.
Sun Caged - S/T Excellent progressive metal.
Neal Morse - Testimony Great album by Neal and co., even if you don't care about the religious lyrics.
Spock's Beard - Feel Euphoria The guys definitely showed that there's still a lot of talent left in that band.
Green Carnation - Blessing in Disguise Very different from their previous effort, but still amazing!!!
Rob Rock - Eyes of Eternity Excellent songs and amazing vocals. This album goes up a notch from Rage of Creation. By the way, almost everything Roy Z touches turns to gold.
Well, 2003 had a lot of great releases. let's hope 2004 turns out to be just as good. Bye!
Alexis
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 6776 ************************** === Contributions to ytsejam: ytsejam@torchsong.com === === Send requests to: ytsejam-request@torchsong.com === === More information at: http://www.dreamt.org/local/ytsejam.php === === Brought by the ghost of ytsejam@arastar.coms past === === Reach the owner of this list at: ytsejam-owner@torchsong.com ===
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